The Credit Scoring Site A bleak account 

The Letters: Experian

20th century consumer attempts to obtain credit score and information from Experian

| By Greg Fisher

Subject: question to Ask Max (Maxine Sweet)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:47:41 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@experian.com

Say Max, information on how to obtain one's credit score is suspiciously absent from your site. How do I get mine?

--

Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Ask Max Question
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:18:51 -0700
From: Mina Strawther (NCAC.Consumer@experian.com)
Organization: EXPERIAN
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Greg:

The Experian Credit Report does not list score factors nor bankruptcy score. The credit grantor could be using a scoring factor to help them objectively and accurately review an applicant's credit report. Risk scores also help lenders predict a consumer's future payment pattern.

Not all credit grantors are alike, however, and their use of risk scores differ. Additionally, there are many ways of developing risk scores. Because of these differences, along with the fact that a consumer's risk score changes over time as their credit history evolves - risk scores are not displayed on a consumer's credit report.

Sincerely,

Mina Strawther, Research Analyst
Experian National Consumer Assistance Center





Subject: Ask Max Question
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:18:51 -0700
From: Mina Strawther (NCAC.Consumer@experian.com)
Organization: EXPERIAN
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

If I am denied a mortgage loan based, in part, on a credit score, in order to get the highest possible score, or, even just to raise my score, I would need to know the areas in which I am deficient. Will you tell me those areas?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Ask Max Question
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 15:20:27 -0700
From: Mina Strawther (NCAC.Consumer@experian.com)
Organization: EXPERIAN
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Greg:

There are as many different ways of developing a risk score, as there are credit card providers. Due to these differences, your score could lead to a credit approval with one creditor; a declination with another.

We do not grant or deny credit. Each credit grantor makes that decision based on its own guidelines. Experian only stores information from credit grantors and public records and supplies this information to other creditors.

Please contact the credit grantor to inquire as to the specific reasons behind their declination. Your declination letter should provide a reference/sequence number that refers to your application, along with either an address or phone number to contact regarding their decision.

You are entitled to receive a free copy of your credit report within 60 days of being denied credit, employment, or insurance. Instructions on how to get a copy of your credit report can be found in the Experian web site in the “Credit Report" section of the Vistors Center or you may call 1.800.682.7654.

Factors which can affect risk score formulation include, but are not limited to, the following:

Recent inquiries
Presence of derogatory public record information
Presence of derogatory account information
Number of revolving bank accounts
Number of service and professional accounts (collection agency, medical, and utility)
Age of accounts
Existing balances on retail accounts
Lack of open revolving accounts
Number of credit inquiries

If you feel there are items contained in your credit profile that are inaccurate, please contact the credit bureau listed on the back page of your credit profile.

Be specific when identifying the item(s) in question, as well as the nature of the dispute (i.e. "the account is not mine" or "status incorrect - the correct status should be ...".) In order for us to assist you better, please provide full identification information with your request.

Experian (or the appropriate bureau) will reinvestigate the item(s) with the source of the information. When we complete our reinvestigation process, we will send you an updated credit report. The reinvestigation process is completed within 30 days.

Thank you

Mina Strawther, Research Analyst
Experian National Consumer Assistance Center


Subject: Re: Ask Max Question
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 06:11:52 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: NCAC.Consumer@experian.com

Thanks for your advice, but there is no inaccurate information in my credit file.

Will you please give me the formula used to arrive at my FannieMae qualified mortgage loan risk score so I know exactly: the impact of recent inquiries, how many inquiries are excessive, the right number of revolving bank accounts to have, the age my accounts should be, the degree of impact of existing balances have on retail accounts, the degree of impact on my score for my lack of open revolving accounts, and, specifically, the way to achieve a perfect score (the one you provide to mortgage lenders for FannieMae qualified mortgage loans)?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Risk Score
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 06:31:54 -0700
From: Mina Strawther (NCAC.Consumer@experian.com)
Organization: EXPERIAN
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Greg:

As I've explained in several previous emails, risk scores are used differently by credit grantors and calculated in numerous ways. Because of these variances, risk scores are not displayed on a consumer credit report.

Sincerely,

Mina Strawther, Research Analyst
Experian National Consumer Assistance Center





Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 03:21:59 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: NCAC.Consumer@experian.com

I beg your pardon.

I must have missed at least one of your instances of email; you said you sent several. Here is my dictionary's first definition of the word "several":

Being of a number more than two or three but not many: several miles away.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from InfoSoft International, Inc. All rights reserved.

Several: more than two. At least, that's the way most of us in the midwest think of "several."

Perhaps I, indeed, received all your email. Our difference, then, is semantic. And so, would you call two late payments "several" too? It goes to the heart of the matter: what's your definition of "Too few bank revolving accounts"? "Too many bank revolving accounts"? "Too many inquiries last 12 months"? "Lack of recent installment loan information"? Several?

If you sent more than two previously, please send those I missed. Perhaps the answer I seek lies within one of the lost letters, and you have my most sincere apology for causing your inconvenience. For your reference, just to be sure we're not missing any letters, I have included our entire, albeit short, history of communication in the space above.

If, however, the only correspondence we had is that above, please allow me to restate my last question.

As far as I know (and please correct me if I am wrong), there is only one risk score you produce used for underwriting FannieMae qualified conventional loans: "The Experian/Fair, Isaac Model." I believe that score uses the same model for all applicants requesting credit under the FannieMae guidelines. Is there more than one scoring model utilized in underwriting FannieMae conventional mortgage loans?

If not, there is no variance in the score calculation for any group or individual evaluated by credit grantors utilizing the conventional loan program. In other words, for loans qualified for purchase by FannieMae, using your service, all applicants' credit, nationwide, is scored using the same model: "The Experian/Fair Isaac Model." Please correct me if I am wrong. For FannieMae qualified conventional underwriting that you sell to credit grantors, do you have more than one model?

Please review my email to you. I didn't ask you how to obtain my credit score, and you didn't give a direct answer to the question. Let me give you another chance to answer my simple yes or no query.

Will you tell me precisely how to achieve a perfect risk score used for FannieMae conventional loan underwriting, otherwise known as "The Experian/Fair Isaac Model?"

The Fair Credit Reporting Act allows you to refuse to reveal the formula. Does Experian support that law? Will you use that law as your basis to not answer my question?

Why am I conferring with you? My mail was to Maxine Sweet. Please give her a copy of this.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Ask Max Question
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:27:07 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: NCAC.Consumer@experian.com

There must be something wrong. I last wrote to you Friday, May 9, but got no response. Will you answer my question?

Allow me to restate it:

Will you tell me precisely how to achieve a perfect risk score used for FannieMae conventional loan underwriting, otherwise known as "The Experian/Fair Isaac Model"?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Risk Score
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 05:53:09 -0700
From: Mina Strawther (NCAC.Consumer@experian.com)
Organization: EXPERIAN
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Greg:

As I've tried to explain in prior emails, I can not tell you how to achieve a "perfect" risk score. Your risk score is a 'snapshot' of an applicant's potential level of risk at a particular point in time. Scores change with time and with changes in your credit performance.

Because your score changes every time information is added to your credit bureau file, you don't have one single score. Another reason you don't have just one score is that there are a variety of scoring systems in use, and they vary widely in their numbering (and interpretation).

For example, a 475 from one type of system may not indicate the same level of risk as a 475 from another system.

If you have further questions regarding risk scores, please refer to the Fair Isaac's website at http://www.fairisaacs.com.

Thank you.

Mina Strawther, Research Analyst
Experian National Consumer Assistance Center


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:43:35 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: NCAC.Consumer@experian.com

I see. So time itself changes my score. That means that even though all other factors stay as positive as possible, my score will be different a day, a month, and a year later, only because of the passage of time.

I want to be sure that when the "snapshot" of my credit is taken by the mortgage company to which I apply, the risk score is the highest possible. The score accessed at that "particular point in time" is the score used to approve or deny my loan.

You assume my credit performance changes. It does not; it is always perfect. No derogatory information is added to my file, so my score should never change (unless time itself REALLY does change it (I wonder if it makes it go up or down). My inquiry was to find out what characteristics I must have to achieve the highest score possible in the formula: the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model", not the "variety" of systems you mentioned.

You do not have to tell me there are a number of scoring systems in use. I asked you about one in particular, the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model" used for Fannie Mae qualified conventional mortgage loan underwriting.

The Fair/Isaac web site has no answer to my questions.

By the way, you listed the wrong URL for their web site; there is only one "s". When I used the address you gave me, my browser indicated an error. If you were the data entry person making data entry or correcting an Experian credit report, and made a typing error like that, it might affect my credit score.

Thank you for your time. You were helpful on this level.

What is your supervisor's name and email address?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:20:27 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: NCAC.Consumer@experian.com

There must be something wrong. I last wrote to you a week ago, Friday, May 23, but got no response. Will you answer my question?

Allow me to restate it: What is your supervisor's name and email address?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Response
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:26:13 -0500
From: "Mina Strawther" (ncac.consumer@experian.com)
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Greg:

My apologies for the delay in responding - I was out of the office on vacation last week.

My manager's name is Mary Swafford. You may contact her via email at the following address: Beth.Chandler@Experian.com (this is her secretary's email; it will be forwarded to Mrs. Swafford).

Sincerely,

Mina Strawther, Research Analyst
Experian National Consumer Assistance Center
PO Box 1240
Allen, TX 75013-1240


Subject: Re: Ask Max Question
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 02:29:48 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Beth.Chandler@Experian.com

Ms. Chandler:

Thanks for your help. Would you please print this entire message and give it to Mrs. Swafford?

Mrs. Swafford:

Over a month ago, I asked your company how to get my credit score. The ensuing correspondence following that request is above.

Will you give me the credit score?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Ask Max Question
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 02:45:16 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Beth.Chandler@Experian.com

Mrs. Swafford:

Will you give me the credit score?

Please respond this time.

Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Ask Max Question
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:36:29 -0600
From: Beth Chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: Experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Mr. Fisher:

Mary Swafford cannot respond due to the fact that she is out of the office for a few days. She will return on Friday, June 20th. You can call her at 972-390-3540 (I will probably receive your call) and I will do what I can to assist you.

Beth Chandler
Exec. Secretary


Subject: Re: Ask Max Question
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:22:29 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

That's OK Ms. Chandler; no need for all that. I don't want to waste Ms. Swafford's time-- she must be busy not to have responded to my request For two weeks. It was, however, a question that could have been answered with a yes or no.

I doubt she has the authority to release the risk score to me without permission.

Please forward this to Ms. Swaffords's supervisor.

What is Ms. Swafford's supervisor's name and email address?

And, what is the person's name and email address who has the authority to grant my wish?

Here is my request again:

Will you tell me precisely how to achieve a perfect risk score used for FannieMae conventional loan underwriting, otherwise known as "The Experian/Fair Isaac Model"?

Will you give me the credit score?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Ask Max Question
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:56:00 -0600
From: Beth Chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: Experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Mr. Fisher,

I will give this information to Mary Swafford and wait until she responds before releasing the name and number of her supervisor to you.

Beth Chandler


Subject: Re: Ask Max Question
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:48:17 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

Ms. Chandler:

I last heard from you Thursday, June 19. Today is Wednesday, June 25. I originally contacted you and Ms. Swafford June 5. That is long enough for Ms. Swafford to reply.

What is Ms. Swafford's supervisor's name and email address?

And, what is the person's name and email address who has the authority to grant my wish?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Ask Max Question
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 02:13:11 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

Ms. Chandler, what is Ms. Swaffords's supervisor's name and email address?

My first email through you to Ms. Swafford was June 5. She never responded.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Score
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 13:41:57 -0500
From: beth chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

(response from Mary Swafford)

Dear Mr. Fisher:

I understand that you have been communicating via internet with a member of my staff, Mina Strawther.

Your request is: Will you tell me precisely how to achieve a perfect risk score used for Fannie Mae conventional loan underwriting, otherwise known as "The Experian/Fair Isaac Model?

The FICO/Risk Score is a software package that is provided by Experian to credit lenders. As a subscriber to Experian, companies are provided with equipment, services and specialized training to make an informed credit granting decision. Each creditor that receives this information sets its own policies and guidelines on how they will use and interpret the information. The calculation of a score is based upon all information contained in the credit report. A numeric value is assigned to each item then compiled to make the final score. The creditor makes decisions based on the final calculated score. The score may change on a continuous daily basis because the consumer's credit information is constantly being updated. Not only will your score change from day to day, but the creditor may change their scoring criteria from day to day based on supply and demand. For example, you may have applied for credit with creditor "A" and based on their policies and gudelines they scored your history with 100. With this score they may be willing to grant your request for credit. You may have also applied for credit with creditor "B" and based on their policies and gudelines scored your history with 100. With this score, they may feel that they are unable to grant you credit. Any particular score will not guarantee that your request for credit will automatically be approved by a creditor.

Experian's obligation under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) is to provide conusmers with "the nature and substance" of the information in the consumer's file. Experian goes beyond this legal requirement and provides consumers with all the information in their files. FICO/Risk Scores, however, are not part of a consumer's credit profile. On the contrary, it is merely a tool used by a credit grantor at their own discretion to make a credit granting decision.

I do apologize for the delay in my response but I have been out of the office. Hopefully your questions have been satisfactorily answered.

Sincerely,

Mary Swafford
Operations Manager
National Consumer Assistance Center


Subject: Re: Score
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 13:26:57 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

You have not satisfactorily answered my question.

Freddie Mac advises lenders that "...applicants with FICO scores above 660 are likely to have acceptable credit reputations." (http://www.freddiemac.com/reports/moseley/chap6.htm)

Fannie Mae states that its automated underwriting system uses "...a credit- scoring component to perform its risk analysis." (http://www.fanniemae.com/Lender/MonthlyDig/wn_lendletter.html#LL-04)

I will be evaluated by your score for my mortgage application, so, before applying, I want to make the score as high as possible so I am considered likely to have an acceptable credit reputation. In most of life's endeavors, we are given the rules. Want to win an election? Get the most votes. Want an A+ on the test? Give correct answers. Want perfect credit? Guess.

Who is your supervisor?

What is their email address?

I waited 30 days for your response. Please do not delay this request for 30 days.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Score
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 01:48:37 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

There must be something wrong. You didn't respond Monday.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Score
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:55:01 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

(Sorry to keep bothering you, Ms. Chandler. Please give this to Ms. Swafford.)

This is quite extraordinary. In most American business, a subordinate is obligated to step out of the way to allow their superior to handle the issue if an outside party's request can't be satisfied. But, perhaps your company has an unorthodox corporate culture.

You have ignored my request to speak to your supervisor.

Wouldn't you at least like to refuse to give me that person's name?

By the way, would you please name one other piece of information you provide other than "the nature and substance" of the information in the consumer's file? Maybe I have it wrong, but to me, the "substance" seems to mean ALL the information.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Getting back
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 14:42:58 -0500
From: beth chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Fisher,

I would like to apologize for the delay in responding to your e-mail dated July 10, 1997. Unfortunately, my server has been down for some time and is finally up and running now. I will forward your response to Mary Swafford. Please await her comments.

Thanks,
Beth


Subject: Re: Getting back
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:39:27 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

I was waiting to hear from her. Did she decide not to respond?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Risk Score
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:48:29 -0500
From: beth chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Mr. Fisher:

I'm sorry you feel you have received less than satisfactory services from your Experian contacts.

Your request to be given the "rules" for ensuring the risk score associated with your credit report will be "as high as possible" have been addressed in your multiple contacts with Mina Strawther. Ms. Strawther listed for you the "Factors which can affect risk score formations". To reiterate:

In my response to your supervisor escalation, I explained the relationship of the credit reporting agency, the consumer, the credit grantor and the risk score. The consumer, Mr. Fisher, has control of the risk score. Established re-payment patterns; the ratio of balance to credit limit; the lack of negative payment of accounts, all have an impact on the risk score. To get "as high as possible" the consumer would have established a history of consistently following the agreed to re-payment terms with their credit grantors, with little negative activity.

I feel, Mr. Fisher, in our multiple contacts we have answered each of your questions as thoroughly as possible.

My supervisor is John Sprague, Vice President, National Consumer Assistance Center.

Sincerely

Mary Swafford
Operations Manager


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 03:45:04 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

You have told me nothing of any use. Maybe it would help to narrow the scope. Here is one specific question: What is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"? Two? Five? Ten? Fifty? Four-hundred sixty-three?

You stated that that is a factor in determining a risk score, but you didn't give me the number.

At this point, since I will be corresponding (hopefully) with Mr. Sprague, I ask it only rhetorically.

What is Mr. Sprague's email address or, if there is no email address avaiable, his physical address? My thanks to you and your assistant for your help since I first contacted you over two months ago.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:24:16 -0500
From: beth chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Fisher:

You can respond to Mr. Sprague the same way you contacted Mary Swafford. I will be more than happy to relay information. I am located just outside of his (and Mary's) office.


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:05:45 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

John Sprague, Vice President
National Consumer Assistance Center
Experian

To obtain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting), what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And, how do I obtain the highest possible score?

What is the highest possible score?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 03:27:32 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Sprague:

I contacted you over a week ago.

When will you respond?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:49:44 -0500
From: beth chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Fisher:

Mr. Sprague is out of the office until 9/2/97. I will send a response upon his return.

Beth Chandler


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 03:46:34 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

Mr. Sprague:

I sent the first message above to you over two weeks ago.

When will you respond?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 02:30:08 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

Ms. Chandler:

What is Mr. Sprague's supervisor's name?

What is their email address?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Risk Score
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:07:11 -0500
From: beth chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Fisher,

Mr. Sprague is investigating all resources to provide to you the clearest explanation of obtaining a "perfect" risk score. Please be prepared for more information at the end of this week.

Beth Chandler


Subject: Re: Response from John Sprague
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:36:42 -0500
From: beth chandler (beth.chandler@experian.com)
Organization: experian
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

The following is Mr. Sprague's response to your e-mail messages:

Mr. Fisher:

We have been in contact with Fair Issac and, as you know, they have made an attempt to address your questions surrounding credit scoring. We recommend that you continue to work with them to seek clarification on how credit scoring works and its impact on the mortgage lending industry.

The National Association of Mortgage Brokers also has training material available to assist you. You can contact them at 703-610-9009. We will also let them know you are interested in more information.

John Sprague


Subject: Re: Response from John Sprague
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:43:40 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

I received a message from a co-worker that you called.

Who at Fair, Isaac gave you my telephone number?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Response from John Sprague
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:34:23 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE AND THE MESSAGE ABOVE IMMEDIATELY.

I must stop the person who, without my permission, is giving my telephone number to third parties, as they have to you.

I contacted you and Fair, Isaac, independently, asking questions pertaining to your report about my credit performance so I can understand how to obtain the highest possible credit score. That I am a mortgage banker is irrelevant. One of the persons at Fair, Isaac asked what I did for a living, and, I presumed, I gave my answer in confidence.

Fair, Isaac asked for my telephone number so they could have the person who could answer my questions call me, and I gave it to them in confidence. For some reason, they do not want to communicate in writing by email. Some of the time they have; some of the time they have not. I did not expect that they would give my telephone number, or information about my employment, or relay any part of my conversation with them about me to you, or anybody else.

The questions I asked the persons at Fair, Isaac remain unanswered.

My goal is to find out how I can arrange my personal finances to have my credit report be assigned the highest credit score.

Do not contact the Mortgage Brokers Association, or anyone else on my behalf.

Your presumption is audacious.

Do not call me again unless I give you my telephone number.

It took you three weeks to respond to my three questions. Your assistant wrote earlier this week that you were "investigating all resources to provide to you the clearest explanation of obtaining a "perfect" risk score," and that that I should "... be prepared for more information at the end of this week."

It took you three weeks to give me no information, just referrals to talk to another company and a trade organization. The trade organization would only compile information given to them by you and Fair, Isaac.

What is your supervisor's name?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Response from John Sprague
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:11:03 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: beth.chandler@experian.com, john.sprague@experian.co

In my subsequent call to Fair, Isaac, they failed to answer my two basic questions.

In my subsequent call to the National Association of Mortgage Brokers, they stated that the only "training material" on the subject is a brochure with information given to them by Fair, Isaac.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:35:41 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: van.skilling@experian.com

Van Skilling, CEO and Chairman of the Board
National Consumer Assistance Center
Experian

To attain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest possible score?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: credit scoring
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 03:59:38 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: van.skilling@experian.com

Van Skilling, CEO and Chairman of the Board
Experian

I sent you this message on September 17:

To attain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest possible score?

Will you respond?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)10/8/97


Subject: Re: previous requests
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: van.skilling@experian.com (Van Skilling)
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

The CEO's office does not respond to consumer issues sent via internet due to security issues. Please contact John Sprague's office in Allen, TX at 972.390.3609.

Thank you --


Subject: Re: previous requests
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 12:49:56 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Van Skilling
CC: beth.chandler@experian.com, john.sprague@experian.com

Here is a transcript of the telephone conversation I had today wih John Sprague.

GF: This conversation is being recorded for quality control purposes.

JS: I... I'm not going to ah, participate in a call that's recorded.

GF: Why not?

JS: I'm just not.

GF: Will you participate in a... a discussion in writing?

JS: Ah, you can do that as long as it's not on email.

GF: I see. OK, ah..., why don't you want to talk to me?

JS: I'm not going to talk to somebody that's... got a call that's recorded.

GF: Why's that?

JS: Call me back when you're ready to talk without a recording.

GF: I'll never be ready to talk without a recording. You sound like you have something to hide. Do you?

JS: (hung up)

A discussion by mail will take weeks; I have waited 5 months already.

As recorded, and given to you, in my earlier email to and from Mr. Sprague, he referred me to others. Does he have more information than he did then?

Do you, or the "CEO's office", have a response? What is it? What are the names of the people in the CEO's office--or is "the CEO's office" another name for the CEO? I don't know who I am communicating with; your email used the third person form of speech. Are you responsible for its composition, or is someone else?

Is it necessary for us to discuss my personal credit report to answer these questions?

- To attain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

- And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

- What is the highest possible score?

If not, what are the "security issues"? Your employees already attempted to answer my questions by email.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Contacting Experian
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 14:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: van.skilling@experian.com (Van Skilling)
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
CC: beth.chandler@experian.com

Please be advised that our policy says that our employees do not have to take calls that are being taped and, as I notified you previously, responding by internet is also not done because of security reasons.

Therefore, all future correspondence from you to Experian must be in written form mailed through the U.S. Postal Service. Likewise, our responses to you will be in writing, mailed through the U.S. Postal Service.

Your main and only contact at Experian from now on is as follows:
Carolyn Helm
Experian
701 Experian Parkway
Allen, TX 75013


[addressed to Carolyn Helm]

10/10/97, delivered by U.S. Mail overnight delivery

Mr. Skilling:

I encourage you to change your policy. If you are powerless to change the policy, what is the person's name who is empowered? Is your policy the same for an interview with a television network?

Besides, I've already contacted you with the questions. They remain the same-- the same, simple, basic, fundamental questions, whether they come through the mail, email, or carrier pigeon. Your "Ask Max" area of your web site seems not to have any qualms in responding "by internet" for the entire world to see. Actually, in my case, your employees have contacted me "by internet" already many times. I'm flattered--my inquiries are so biting, they're confidential, and have made you change your policy? Three basic questions?

Please be advised that my policy says that I have to tape my calls to your employees. And, my policy also requires, as I requested of you previously, for you to provide an explanation in writing, "by internet" or whatever means it takes, of what possible security is breached should we correspond "by internet" or any other means; you did not explain. You and your company answer questions I didn't ask.

Therefore, because of my policy and your policy, all future correspondence to me could come through the internet, the U.S. Postal Service (with which I am contracting to maintain a post office box for you to use in our correspondence with me), over the telephone, or face-to-face. You can choose which ever you want, but the mail will be the slowest. If you want, I'll even check into having our messages delivered by stage coach which would help you further delay our correspondence and cost us even more.

There are no security breaches--no reason for you not to respond by the internet (you have my permission, we're not going to talk about my personal credit report, and, for the second time, please explain what you are talking about: "security reasons").

The logic in the second paragraph of your most recent correspondence is dispelled easily. The first paragraph says that your employees do not have to respond "by internet." The second sentence says "Therefore," I have to contact you through the US Postal Service. You mixed up your employees with me. I do not have a "security reason" not to transmit data over the internet. I do not care who reads it, but here are the questions again to you and Ms. Helm "through the U.S. Postal Service":

- To attain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

- And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

- What is the highest possible score?

See? That didn't hurt a bit.

You didn't answer my questions. Please read them again.

Welcome to the fray, Ms. Helm. What is your position? Please give a copy of this to John Peace, Chief Executive Officer. Let me know if you refuse, or if Mr. Skilling disallows it. Mr. Peace, please confirm you received it, and, if your subordinates refuse to respond, please respond.

[signature]

Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
P O BOX 342
DAYTON OH 45409-0342
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


10/22/97, delivered by U.S. Mail, return receipt requested

Carolyn Helm
Experian
701 Experian Parkway
Allen, Texas 75013

Ms. Helm:

Give this message to Mr. Skilling.

10/22/97

Mr. Skilling:

I wrote to you over a week ago. The letter is attached. When will you respond?

[signature]

Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
Post Office Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342


11/4/97, delivered by U.S. Mail, return receipt requested, restricted delivery

Carolyn Helm
Experian
701 Experian Parkway
Allen, Texas 75013-3715

Ms. Helm:

Give this message to Van Skilling. Did you receive my last two letters?

Mr. Skilling:

I wrote to you over three weeks ago, and again over a week ago. I have a return receipt from the postal service showing that Ms. Helm's agent, accepted the second letter October 27, 1997. Both letters are attached.

When will you respond?

[signature]

Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
Post Office Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342


Subject: Credit score
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:26:31 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: peter.brooker@experian.com

Peter Brooker
Associate director, press relations
Experian

Mr. Brooker:

Please pass this note to John Peace.

Thank you.

***************

John Peace
Chief Executive Officer
Experian

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:47:56 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: peter.brooker@experian.com
References: 1

Mr. Brooker:

I sent the message below a week ago. Did Mr. Peace receive it?

Greg Fisher wrote:

Peter Brooker
Associate director, press relations
Experian

Mr. Brooker:

Please pass this note to John Peace.

Thank you.

***************

John Peace
Chief Executive Officer
Experian

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:31:40 +0000
From: Peter Brooker (peter.brooker@experian.com)
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortunately, I was abroad on holiday last week and did not receive your original email when I called my messages up on my return to the country.

However, I can tell you that as your enquiry relates to the US, I have forwarded it to my colleagues in the US to respond to. Therefore, I have not sent your enquiry to Mr Peace, who is our Chief Executive and not involved in our clients' scoring procedures.

I am sure that my colleagues in the US will contact you shortly.

Regards

Peter Brooker
Associate Direct
Experian


Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:30:02 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Peter Brooker (peter.brooker@experian.com)
References: 1

Peter Brooker
Associate Direct
Experian

D. Van Skilling, CEO and Chairman of the Board (one of your collegues in the U.S.) has not responded to my multiple attempts to contact him with the questions I subseqently posed to Mr. Peace.

Here is a transcript of our correspondence:

[all email and mail to and from Experian inserted here]

******************************

With all due respect to you, Mr. Brooker, I simply wanted you to forward my message to Mr. Peace. If I had his email address, I would send it to him directly. Please do not interfere again with this message intended for Mr. Peace.

Please forward the message to Mr. Peace and confirm to me that you have done so, or give me Mr. Peace's email address. If you will not, I will use the postal services to deliver the message, however, it will only slow our correspondence.

I hope you had a pleasant holiday.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply -Reply
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:01:05 +0000
From: Peter Brooker (peter.brooker@experian.com)
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Mr Fisher,

Thank you for your latest email. I did, indeed, have a pleasant holiday.

As I said in my previous answer, your enquiry relates to technical matters involved in US scoring and I have forwarded your enquiry to my colleagues in the US, this time to Carolyn Helm, who you were asked to address previous enquiries to. Procedures and systems for scoring differ between the US and the UK and we do not have the knowledge or expertise in the UK to answer your question. I can assure you that Mr Peace would give exactly the same answer and refer your enquiry to the appropriate people in the US. I have, therefore, not passed this latest message to Mr Peace as it would actually slow the response down by routing it through his office, only for him to reply to me asking me to refer you to our US office.

I am sure that if you address your enquiry in writing to the addres you were given, your enquiry will be dealt with promptly.

Regards

Peter Brooker


Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply -Reply
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 00:40:22 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Peter Brooker (peter.brooker@experian.com)
References: 1

My most sincere apologies, Mr. Brooker; I thought Mr. Peace was in Mr. Skilling's chain of command.

On the page http://www.experian.com/corporate/bios.html, it says that Mr. Skilling is the vice chairman, and that Mr. Peace is the chief executive officer. From that, I concluded that, at least, Mr. Skilling's work is supervised by Mr. Peace (who, I understand, sits on the board of directors). They are apparently contemporaries.

I have painstakingly avoided bypassing your chain of command since my first contact with one of your customer service representatives. I appealed to their supervisors for the information the subordinates could not provide. In like manner, when I reached Mr. Skilling's level, he failed to answer the questions, so I sought his supervisor (on my own, because he never responded to my multiple letters therefore not giving even the chance to request his supervisor's name). And, Mr. Skilling even referred me back to one of his reports on a lower level, Ms. Helm, accomplishing nothing. I get to Skilling, and he sends me back downstairs. It's the chain of command thingy. He doesn't get it.

You saw the unanswered letters and email I addressed to Ms. Helm, yet you conclude "I am sure that if you address your enquiry in writing to the addres you were given, your enquiry will be dealt with promptly."

With that statement you stopped making sense.

If Mr. Skilling does not report to Mr. Peace, kindly give this message to Lord Wolfson of Sunningdale, unless there is another person to whom Mr. Skilling directly answers. If you will not, I will resort to contacting Lord Wolfson by mail. It seems to be your company's preferred method. It surely slows the communication, however, if that is the goal.

The Rt Hon Lord Wolfson of Sunningdale
Leconfield House
Curzon Street
London
W1Y 7FL

To attain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest possible score?

Your company's answers so far:

[all email and mail to and from Experian inserted here]

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit score
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:46:34 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Peter Brooker, Press Relations, Experian Worldwide" (peter.brooker@experian.com)

Did you forward my last message to Lord Wolfson?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit score -Reply
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:20:57 +0000
From: Peter Brooker (peter.brooker@experian.com)
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Mr Fisher

I have not passed your correspondence on to Lord Wolfson for exactly the same reason that I have not passed it on to Mr Peace. Doing so would only slow down the reply process as he would pass it back to those who are expert in the subject of the enquiry, in this case Ms Helm or Ms Strawther in the US, although after referring it to others like myself to find out who in the US should be dealing with it.

As your query relates to US scoring methods and the regulations surrounding the disclosure of the methodology of scoring models, the only people who are qualified to comment on your query are those directly involved, namely those with whom you have previously been in correspondence.

Nevertheless, I have read through the correspondence sent to me, which gives full answers to your questions. However, I have spoken to Maxine Sweet and Ms Helm and you will be receiving another response very shortly, as I said in one of my earlier emails.

Please accept my assurance that any corresondence to anyone in the UK will be referred back to the same people in the US - but will be slower because they will not know immediately who they should be referring it to and will have to make enquiries before they do so.

Peter Brooker


Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 03:29:10 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Peter Brooker (peter.brooker@experian.com)
References: 1

Letting your comment "Nevertheless, I have read through the correspondence sent to me, which gives full answers to your questions" go without challenge would be remiss. Someone reading this correspondence in the future may, without taking the time to read the other material, conclude that what you said is true. Here in America, we call it "spin."

You have demonstrated both familiarity and skill in the use of a personal computer, so it would be a simple task for you to copy and paste the specific answer to this question from the text of your company's responses I sent you. Please do, because I cannot find the answer. We shall even limit your having to respond to but one specific question. Following the question, I leave a big white space in which you may copy the answer from your company's response.

"Those who are qualified" to respond to my questions include managers in the highest echelon, the board of directors, and the stockholders; anyone including and above your research analyst who would act in your company's best interest, participating in a layman's discourse with a consumer. They would most certainly want to know of my exploration, but, of course (and I am sure you would very quickly point this out to me), that is from my rule book, not yours. I assume Lord Wolfson and the board are at least an experts in the field of common sense and company vision, but, again, you apparently do not agree. The implications of my having to ask the question are much broader than the question itself. You do not see that.

I am not compelled to worry about what I could possibly have to lose by alerting the board to this issue. Gosh, they won't yell at me will they? Neither Mr. Peace nor Lord Wolfson have accessible email addresses; I simply requested you give them the messages. I did not ask you to make routing decisions for me.

Since you will not give the message to Lord Wolfson, I will contact him by mail.

Now, here is the question:

To attain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And here, Mr. Brooker, is your big white space:











Peter Brooker wrote:

Dear Mr Fisher

I have not passed your correspondence on to Lord Wolfson for exactly the same reason that I have not passed it on to Mr Peace. Doing so would only slow down the reply process as he would pass it back to those who are expert in the subject of the enquiry, in this case Ms Helm or Ms Strawther in the US, although after referring it to others like myself to find out who in the US should be dealing with it.

As your query relates to US scoring methods and the regulations surrounding the disclosure of the methodology of scoring models, the only people who are qualified to comment on your query are those directly involved, namely those with whom you have previously been in correspondence.

Nevertheless, I have read through the correspondence sent to me, which gives full answers to your questions. However, I have spoken to Maxine Sweet and Ms Helm and you will be receiving another response very shortly, as I said in one of my earlier emails.

Please accept my assurance that any corresondence to anyone in the UK will be referred back to the same people in the US - but will be slower because they will not know immediately who they should be referring it to and will have to make enquiries before they do so.

Peter Brooker

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply -Reply
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:28:42 +0000
From: Peter Brooker (peter.brooker@experian.com)
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Mr Fisher

Having received your latest, heavily sarcastic email confirms that you will not accept any normal business practices nor explanations and answers to your questions that you are given and that further correspondence will achieve nothing. I have been very patient and spent a lot of time talking with my colleagues in the US to find a solution to your problem.

Clearly, my colleagues have devoted even longer and have given very full and complete explanations. Therefore, I do not intend to respond to any further emails on this issue, nor to enter into any further correspondence.

Yours sincerely

Peter Brooker


Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply -Reply
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:47:34 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Peter Brooker (peter.brooker@experian.com)
References: 1

Peter Brooker
Associate director
Press relations
Experian, UK
(0115) 976 8858 Telephone

Who is your supervisor? What is their email address? What is their address? What is their telephone number?

I agree that further correspondence with you, personally, will achieve nothing. I never wanted a discussion with you in the first place (see the previous messages). But you insisted on commenting, so I responded in kind to humor you.

If Van Skilling, a chairman, cannot find the answer to the question concerning the correct number of bank revolving accounts, I certainly do not expect someone at your station, or in your position, to know either. That is why, from the beginning of our correspondence, I asked you to give it to others above you. Lord Wolfson is in Britain; you are in Britain. I wanted to expedite my message, I do not know his email address nor even if he has one, so I requested you deliver the message to him. But you intervened. If anybody has been patient, it has been me.

So, now, we arrive at the point where you say you are not going to correspond with me because I am being unruly. An all too typical tactic for those who wish to not respond to questions that may cause them to lose face.

Again, to allow you to make a statement like "Clearly, my colleagues have devoted even longer and have given very full and complete explanations" without responding, would be an error on my part. We are in complete disagreement concerning that statement. If my question had no merit, or had been answered, certainly you would not have "spent a lot of time talking with" your colleagues in the US to find a solution to "the problem." I even gave you a chance to copy the exact verbiage from where my very specific question was supposedly answered. It doesn't exist, so you conveniently refused because I was "sarcastic." Subsequent readers of this correspondence may judge if there was a just reason for me to use that device, when responding to your insinuation. You can say that the question is answered all you want, but it does not make it so.

Sarcasm or no sarcasm, and my cleverness aside, the question "how can I tell what is the right 'number of revolving bank accounts'" remains unanswered.

I will accept normal business practices, including appealing to the next level in the chain of command with a question unanswered by a lower level (a practice you have thwarted).

Do not attempt to communicate with me unless you can do so without bombastic remarks.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit score
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 01:34:53 -0400
From: Greg Fisher gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
To: The Rt Hon Lord Wolfson of Sunningdale

The Rt Hon Lord Wolfson of Sunningdale
The Great Universal Stores P.L.C.
Leconfield House
Curzon Street
London
W1Y 7FL

To attain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting in the U.S., the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

Your company's answers so far are attached.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

[all email and mail to and from Experian attached]


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 03:01:11 -0400
From: Greg Fisher gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
To: g.heaford@epsrc.ac.uk

Dr. Alan W. Rudge
Chairman, EPSRC
Boardmember, Great Universal Stores, PLC

To attain the highest credit score (in the model you use for conventional mortgage loan underwriting in the U.S., the "Experian/Fair Isaac Model"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)






Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:55:18 -0400
From: Greg Fisher gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
To: g.heaford@epsrc.ac.uk
References: 1

I sent this message to you a week ago. Please respond.

[previous message attached]

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)






Subject: Re: Credit scoring -Reply
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:31:23 +0100
From: Geoff Heaford
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr Fisher

I'm sorry I haven't replied before but this is due to the fact I have no idea what you are talking about.

Geoff Heaford
Media Relations Manager and Webmaster
EPSRC
e-mail: g.heaford@epsrc.ac.uk
Tel: +44 (0) 1793 444147
Fax: +44 (0) 1793 444005
Web: www.epsc.ac.uk






Subject: Re: Credit scoring -Reply
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:07:10 -0400
From: Greg Fisher gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
To: Geoff Heaford
References: 1

I do not expect you to have an idea what I am talking about. The message is intended for Dr. Rudge. He is the only appropriate person from which a response could come.

Do you know of him?

Will you forward the message?

Will you give me his email address?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)






Subject: Re: Credit scoring -Reply
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:20:44 +0100
From: Geoff Heaford
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

I have forwarded this to Dr Rudge.

Geoff Heaford
Media Relations Manager and Webmaster
EPSRC
e-mail: g.heaford@epsrc.ac.uk
Tel: +44 (0) 1793 444147
Fax: +44 (0) 1793 444005
Web: www.epsc.ac.uk






Subject: Re: Credit scoring -Reply -Reply
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:01:41 +0100
From: Geoff Heaford
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

I have confirmed with Dr Rudge that as a non-executive director he does not have the information to answer your question.

It is suggested you WRITE ( sorry no e-mail address available) to

The Finance Director
Great Universal Stores
Devonshire Street
Hardwick
MANCHESTER
M16 6EL
UK

Geoff Heaford
Media Relations Manager and Webmaster
EPSRC
e-mail: g.heaford@epsrc.ac.uk
Tel: +44 (0) 1793 444147
Fax: +44 (0) 1793 444005
Web: www.epsc.ac.uk






Subject: Re: Credit scoring -Reply
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998
From: Greg Fisher gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
To: Geoff Heaford

Dr. Rudge:

I have an email address and wrote to Lord Wolfson at The Great Universal Stores over two weeks ago and three days ago, but he has not responded. As an executive director, does he have the information to answer the question?

In fact, I have written to all levels of management at Experian, skipping none, starting at the bottom. None provided the answer. If they had, I would not be writing to you.

I presumed, mistakenly, that, at least, you (one of those at the top (the board)) would. Since you do not understand the concept, here is a short explanation.

One of the possible reasons that a credit report score used for conventional mortgage loan underwriting (the score is a U.S. nationwide standard required by FannieMae and FreddieMac) is not higher is that one could have "too few" or "too many" "bank revolving accounts" (meaning major credit cards (MasterCard, VISA, Discover), if I am not mistaken).

Your company claims several reasons for not providing me the number to open or close to limit that as a reason my score is not higher. By limiting my question to that specific reason, I gave them a chance to provide a specific answer, rather than the usual general answers like "using credit wisely." There are other reasons that affect a score--reasons other than delinquency that any law-abiding, on-time bill-paying, non-delinquent person would have to know to get the highest possible score: balances on revolving accounts too high, too many inquiries to credit bureaus about one's credit, a "large" amount of non-mortgage debt.

Apparently, you are much wiser than I am, because I have no idea how many bank revolving accounts to have, but you can tell me I have too few or too many. And, by law, you don't have to tell me how many to have to make my score higher. Indeed, you don't even have to give me the score.

It's great for cocktail party discussions because nobody really knows the answer, but there are a lot of opinions. I thought you would find the answer if anyone could--or if you are responsible for the vision and direction of the company, you would redirect it or adjust its vision. Since there are only three companies providing that type of score, in large part, you are responsible for the direction of the industry. Your action can have a wide-ranging effect.

Rather than try to paraphrase those correspondences further, I'll attach them to this email.

Thank you for your time. Your were helpful on your level.

Would you please give me the name and email address of the stockholders' association leader, or information on how I can communicate with the shareholders? If I own a share, can I ask them?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)




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Also, see

Truth, falsity and myth in the Ivory Tower

Experian on 30 percent credit utilization ratio magic number

US government spoofs Experian