The Credit Scoring Site A bleak account 

Credit Score Myth 2 and the Donut

False information, leading the Better Business Bureau right to the solution, and its response

By Greg Fisher

It's easy to find false information on the internet. Just go to bbb.org and start reading. Or, try one of Experian's many websites.

Content. More content.

Subject, verb, credit score.

Content is Silly-Con-Val-speak for any manner of words thrown up on Internet servers, and is what drives revenues. It doesn't matter if it is true, provable, from anybody who knows what they're talking about or even coherent. It just has to have enough heft to get indexed by search engines.




Everybody's in the game. There is practically no barrier to entry, and the dishwashers-by-day/authors-by-night all play erudite expert.

BBB

Here is an example. A page in the Better Business Bureau domain states, "Another one-third of your credit score is based on your 'credit utilization ratio,' which is the percentage of your credit limit that you've actually used."

That information, fueled by sponsor Capital One, is false. In fact, it is mathematically impossible.

The single brand of consumer score mentioned on the page is FICO. Fair Isaac, the FICO company, states that this so-called utilization ratio is only part of a category of items. There are other items in that category that have nothing to do with any ratio. And, further, the category itself is only 30 percent (not "one-third") of the importance of FICO scores.

Of course, that means that the BBB is stating that that part of the category is bigger than the category itself.

More falsity (and gibberish): "There is a credit score range-including the FICO score and the latest version of the VantageScore - operate within the range of 301 to 850."

Neither companies' scores' scales' bottom number is 301.

With more false information, the organization also wormed its way into somebody else's publication. In Wisconsin, in the Appleton Post-Crescent, in late 2013, the BBB's Susan Bach falsely wrote, "Insurance companies, employers, landlords and cellphone companies are among other entities that may be checking out your credit score."

That is not true because employers do not use credit scores (because they cannot even get them). But, there it is—Myth 2—in black and white.

n74109

If you want it in color, take a look at a broadcast over the public's airwaves in Connecticut, the BBB's Howard Schwartz in the interviewee chair (couch).

WTNH interviewer: "How important is the credit score? We hear about it all the time."

BBB: "Oh, it's tremendously important. Credit score determines whether or not we can get credit for a credit card, line of credit, get a car, student loan, a mortgage—your employment may be determined as to whether or not you have a good credit score—and even being able to rent an apartment. Now, these types of things– the credit score follows us throughout our entire life. So, in essence, it really does affect the quality of our life."

Near the end of the interview, he even clarifies, "We've been talking about credit scores, this morning, not credit reports."

Council of Better Business Bureaus

From: Greg Fisher [greg@awebsiteabouteverythingelse.com]
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 2:07 PM
To: Melissa Companick, president and CEO, Better Business Bureau of New Jersey
Cc: [----@newjersey.bbb.org]
Subject: Capital Advance Solutions accreditation

I'm with the media, I'm on deadline (it is today) and I'm writing about your organization and Capital Advance Solutions.

Was Capital Advance Solutions a BBB accredited business at any time prior to March 24?

--
Greg Fisher
A Website About Everything Else
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342


From: Melissa Companick
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 3:57 PM
To: Greg Fisher Subject: RE: Capital Advance Solutions accreditation

Mr. Fisher,

Thank you for contacting your BBB. All of the information that can be made available to the media is in the public Business Review on the website.

BBB reports and ratings are subject to change at any time.

Very truly yours,

Melissa Companick, President & CEO
Better Business Bureau Serving New Jersey
[address]

[phone]
[fax]
[email]
bbb.org Start With Trust®


From: jared
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:57 AM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Subject: Working Capital

Greg,

            Here is more information about my company. I will also send non committal application for you to sign and fill. After that send 6 month bank statements to this I address and I will sit down and get you a FREE approval and quote. I look forward to helping your business. Once you reply I will send the application

      Regards,

Jared Barnette-Account Executive
Capital Advance Solutions
[address]
[office] [mobile] [fax]
[email]
www.capitaladvancesolutions.com

[LOGOS: Capital Advance Solutions - BBB Accredited Business - NFIB Member - New York State Restaurant Association]


From: Greg Fisher [greg@awebsiteabouteverythingelse.com]
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 4:50 PM
To: Hutt, Katherine
Subject: RE: Capital Advance Solutions accreditation

It appears that accreditation could end if the fee is not paid. So, would the public Business Review indicate accreditation in 2012, then none in 2013, and accreditation again in 2014–if the fee was paid, not paid, and paid again in those years, sequentially?

On February 11, in an email signature (see below), that organization claimed that it had BBB accreditation.

Did it have accreditation on 2/11/15?

--
Greg Fisher
A Website About Everything Else
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

2 + 2 ≠ Paris

From: Hutt, Katherine
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 9:02 AM
To: 'Greg Fisher'
Subject: RE: Capital Advance Solutions accreditation

Greg:

I'm sorry I did not respond sooner; this accidentally got filed as answered.

Melissa is correct; the information that we share with the media is what is available online at any given time. We do not publish or share historic information beyond what is proscribed by our standards and our ratings formula (three years worth of data on complaints, customer reviews, and government actions).

As you know, the primary purpose of the Business Reviews is to help consumers decide which company they would prefer to do business with. We publish according to standards, which helps insure that comparisons between companies are fairly based on the information that we have at that moment. Business Reviews are dynamic; they can (and do) change every day based on new information.

Best regards,
Katherine

Katherine R. Hutt, APR, Fellow PRSA, Director, Communications
Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc.
[phone]
bbb.org Start With Trust®


From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 11:14 PM
To: Better Business Bureau [via Hutt]
Subject: RE: Capital Advance Solutions accreditation, employers

Council of Better Business Bureaus
(via email)

This is an exercise in logic as seen through the lens of consumer reporting.

You are wrong.

Your website states, "A low credit score can even effect whether or not you get job as some employers take credit score into consideration when hiring."

Employers do not use credit scores. I looked into it.

I told one of your bureaus about that. They responded but ignored the point. In turn, I wrote about the ignoring.

Myth 2 is deep and broad. I paid attention to it because it was fundamental in 2008. A huge financial crisis occurred, and an increase in unemployment followed. I asked for the sources of that information about employers. I was rebuffed over and over.

Things are turning around, but it is still fascinating. Following something closely, regularly, reveals more than just the thing, itself. It goes to different layers of the primary topic and forces thought on secondary topics–truth, itself, perhaps. At many moments, I considered focusing on other myths–ones less challenging; ones more linear; ones not ambiguous and that can't be wriggled out of. But maybe this one causes consideration of the arcane complexity of credit scoring–and, maybe, more so, how falsity gets out of control and ends up in the highest places.

While I say that employers do not use scores (and I waited a long time to do so), I cannot prove it. But I have no such responsibility. While it would not be something that happens in the legitimate system, some guy, somewhere, at some time probably used a score for hiring purposes. But that is just an anomaly.

On the other hand, I can't prove that that happened, either (and neither can you). Unfortunately for you, since you made the claim, the responsibility of proof is yours. I don't have to prove what is not, but you have to prove what is (unless you just want to engage in rumor-mongering).

What are you doing about the false information you maintain? What will you do to counteract its years of existence? One institution in our society took action (such as it were).

As an alternative to answering those questions, since you say employers use credit scores, name one.

The onus is yours.

--
Greg Fisher
Truth and Falsity
truthandfalsity.com
Page A2
pagea2.com
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
skype fisher100
mobile/text 937-681-3224
fax 937-630-3213




From: Hutt, Katherine
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 11:33 AM
To: 'greg@creditscoring.com'
Subject: RE: Capital Advance Solutions accreditation, employers

Mr. Fisher:

Our blogger was merely reporting on a story that originally appeared on MSN.com. Please take your concerns up with the original journalist.

Best regards,

Katherine R. Hutt, APR, Fellow PRSA, Director, Communications
Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc.
[phone]
bbb.org Start With Trust®


From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 12:55 PM
To: Hutt, Katherine
Cc: [Leslie Baughn, Council of Better Business Bureaus]; Melissa Companick, president and CEO, Better Business Bureau of New Jersey; Melissa Companick, president & CEO, Better Business Bureau Serving New Jersey (2)
Subject: RE: Capital Advance Solutions accreditation, employers, ridiculous, the more you write...

You're being difficult and ridiculous: Both links to the article are dead. Ms. Baughn can't find it using them, either. Is this some kind of game to you?

I'm happy to bring the original journalist into the discussion. What is that person's name?

I just tried to make a complaint about you, the Council of Better Business Bureaus. Your false form give me an error. I called your technical support department and the person I talked to experienced the same thing. Who is the "Council of Better Business Bureau[SIC]"?

Obviously, we have a conflict. Make sure that the top person of your organization get this email, and copy me. I want that person to experience what I'm experiencing. Starting at the bottom is never a good idea—just a waste of my time, as you can see—but I intend on using this inevitable nonsense to make a big point.

What is the name of the person who wrote, "Another one-third of your credit score is based on your 'credit utilization ratio,' which is the percentage of your credit limit that you've actually used" ("© 2011 Council of Better Business Bureaus.")?

--
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
937-681-3224


From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 1:03 PM
To: Hutt, Katherine; Michelle Singletary
Cc: [Leslie Baughn, Council of Better Business Bureaus]; Melissa Companick, president and CEO, Better Business Bureau of New Jersey; Melissa Companick, president & CEO, Better Business Bureau Serving New Jersey (2)
Subject: RE: Capital Advance Solutions accreditation, employers, ridiculous, the more you write..., Washington Post, rhymes

See https://twitter.com/creditscoring/status/613736196435505152 .

--
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
937-681-3224

U.S. News & World Report, Washington, D.C.

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 12:53 PM
To: Council of Better Business Bureaus
Cc: [Direct Selling Education Foundation]; Leslie Baughn, Council of Better Business Bureaus; Kimberly Palmer, reporter, U.S. News & World Report; Tim Chen, CEO, NerdWallet, Inc.; Tim C, CEO, NerdWallet, Inc. (via NerdWallet "US Media Inquiries" email address); Daniel Bortz, reporter/editor, Personal Finance, U.S. News & World Report; Rob Berger, Dough Roller; Lindsay; Ryan; Shelley Solheim, Corporate Social Responsibility, Capital One
Subject: RE: Capital, Washington, #TheCompanyHeKeeps

Kimmie Palmer's D.C. Blogging Club

A listicle of woe

  1. Your website (Washington, D.C. #n551) still falsely states, "A low credit score can even effect whether or not you get job[SIC] as some employers take credit score into consideration when hiring."

    2. Employers do not use credit scores. I looked into it.

  2. You said your writer was reporting on a report when, actually, he was reporting on a copy of a report.

  3. You told me to take up my concern with the original writer but you didn't say who that was, and the links in your story are dead.

    As far as I know, the original article by the original writer (Washington, D.C.) is at http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/my-money/2012/03/09/7-ways-you-waste-money-without-realizing-it .

  4. You sent me on a wild goose chase with your dead links. Here are the vestiges of the article you linked to: https://web.archive.org/web/20120503163101/http://finances.msn.com/saving-money-tips/6930544 .

    It states: "Everyone knows just how important a good credit score is, but most people probably don't think of it in terms of wasting dollars. Your credit score affects everything from your interest rates to auto insurance premiums. It can even affect your chances of getting a job, as some employers use credit history as part of their hiring criteria. It's simple: The higher your credit score, the more money you are going to have in your pocket."

    Like a game of Telephone, yours makes the fatal leap to: "A low credit score can even effect whether or not you get job as some employers take credit score into consideration when hiring."

    But, as you can see, the original doesn't say employers use credit scores. It says that employers use credit history.

  5. The original uses the 'Donut,' and it happens a lot. They start with "score," slip in "report" (or "history"), and then go back to score. It's a way to add high shock value (the employers thing) when talking about scores (technically true, but despicable). Then, along comes a poor, innocent little bloggity-blogger who thinks he read something he didn't. Then, along comes you.

    Whoopsiedoodle.

  6. On the other hand, if you want to link to an article on the original article's website (Washington, D.C.) that confirms the false information you maintain, this writer (Washington, D.C.) states (falsely), "Even job applicants can have their credit scores pulled by employers, as a means of determining if they'll be a risky hire for the company."

    !!

  7. On the third hand, another writer on the same website states: "Employers can buy a 'consumer report' from a credit reporting agency. The report doesn't include your credit score."

    !!!

  8. On the fourth hand, that writer's website (he's the CEO, no less) states, "Landlords, insurance agents and potential employers may also review your score - and you're not borrowing money from them" (Washington, D.C.).

    !!!!

  9. Your false copy is amplified at http://www.dsef.org/2012/05/11/dsef-cbbb-7-ways-that-consumers-are-wasting-money/, with the typographical error and all. Now that's trust!

    !!!!!

  10. Interesting aside: The byline of the article you link to does not contain the name of a person, just "By U.S. News & World Report."

    Again, the original article: money.usnews.com/money/blogs... Still, no author's name. Just "DR" (and that that bloggity-blogging boilerplate title "____ ways you're ___" – so 2000s!).

    A-ha! This man is DR! And I know him!

    But, there isn't anything for him to explain, is there? Sure, he tricked your writer with the Donut, but your writer shouldn't have been writing about credit scores in the first place (this proves it).

  11. Your website is false. I tried to tell you. Anybody can make a mistake and there is enough blame to go around. Just correct your silly nonsense and move on.

  12. Now, as I asked you, what is the name of the person who wrote, "Another one-third of your credit score is based on your 'credit utilization ratio,' which is the percentage of your credit limit that you've actually used"?

    That is not true. The actual category ("Amounts owed") is not made up of only some ratio. It contains other things like:

    Whether you're showing an amount owed on certain types of accounts

    and

    How many accounts have balances

    See Myth 7.

  13. But you take it to a whole new level. The importance of the category you misstate ("Amounts owed") is not 33 percent; it is, actually, only 30 percent.

    In the same breath, your document states, "It's a good idea to keep your purchases to less than 25% of your credit limit at any time, even if you pay off your bill in full every month."

  14. This situation is so silly, I can't believe I'm even writing this.

  15. What's so special (or even ideal as your partner claims) about 25% (see Myth 4)? And, what's the point of a $10,000 credit line if I only use $2500 of it? That is one of the dumbest things that I've ever heard. Are you serious? See Myth 15.

  16. Do you think I'm mean? It doesn't matter in the larger context of these pathetic incidents. Truth is more important than your attitude and ego.

    Besides, I played Nice-Nice, with a lot of patience, for a long time. It didn't work.

  17. Another lulu: Here, contrary to your one-third notion above, your website states, "Utilization means how much available credit he has versus how much he's actually using, and this element makes up about 30 percent of his credit score."

    And the same piece, contrary to your 25% advice above, states, "Experts say consumers should never use more than 50 percent of their available credit."

    So, stop–just stop.

  18. I don't trust you; you spread a false rumor, I told you about it, and you blew me off. So, what is this "Start with Trust" garbage? How can I trust you (or any company you report on, "Accredited" or otherwise) when, obviously, even you are full of beans?

  19. I would come (to Washington, D.C.) and knock on some doors, but I want to wait until the train station renovation is over.

--
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
937-681-3224

The Donut

Rope-a-Dope Razzle Dazzle

Notice the pattern:

Blah, blah, credit score, important.
Blah, blah, credit report, jobs.
Blah, blah, credit score.

"What is a Credit Score?" - Edward Leonard, Franklin Co., Ohio Treasurer

"Debunking common credit score myths - STCU experts break it down" - Spokane Teachers Credit Union

"What is a credit score and why does it matter?" - Duke University

From: postmaster@[----.----]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 12:53 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Subject: Undeliverable: RE: Capital, Washington, #TheCompanyHeKeeps

Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:

Ryan ([a guessed address])
The e-mail address you entered couldn't be found. Please check the recipient's e-mail address and try to resend the message. If the problem continues, please contact your helpdesk.


From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 1:20 PM
To: [360i.com]
Subject: FW: Capital, Washington, #TheCompanyHeKeeps, Ryan

Please forward this to Ryan Gillis.

--
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
937-681-3224


From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 9:07 AM
To: [Jasmine Turner, media contact, Council of Better Business Bureaus]
Subject: FW: Capital, Washington, #TheCompanyHeKeeps, Ryan


--
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
937-681-3224
937-630-3213 fax


From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@truthandfalsity.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 3:13 PM
To: Mary E. Power, president & CEO, Council of Better Business Bureaus; Alexander Conroy, Vital One aka Vitalone
Subject: RE: Capital, Washington, #TheCompanyHeKeeps, Ryan, Vital One aka Vitalone

Who is VitalOne?

--
Greg Fisher
Truth and Falsity
truthandfalsity.com
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342