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Subject: Credit Score
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:08:58 -0400
From: Greg Fisher
To: 104230.1016@compuserve.com

Dennis Bowman
Manager, Public Relations
Equifax

Information on how to obtain one's credit score is suspiciously absent from your site. How do I get mine?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit Score
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:16:59 -0400
From: "Dennis L. Bowman" <104230.1016@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Thanks for your message to Equifax. A credit score is a mathmatical representation of the credit file. As such, it is one tool to be used by a credit grantor in making a credit granting decision. The score as well as the credit report is provided to the credit grantor for use. The score is a flexible number, changing constantly because of continuous changes in a person's credit file as new updates are reported. It will also change based on the type of score - there are many types specific to various credit areas (mortgages, cars, etc.). Plus, how any one score is used by a credit grantor varies. What is great for one lender may not be acceptable to another just down the street. For these reasons, the scores are not available to the general public for "ordering." However, the credit file is and that is what the scores are based on. A good credit report will mean a good score. Consequently, we encourage consumer to review their credit report and make appropriate changes if needed. Hope this answers your question.


Subject: Credit Score
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:49:38 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: 104230.1016@compuserve.com

Yes, it does.

If I am denied a mortgage loan based, in part, on a credit score, in order to get the highest possible score, or, even just to raise my score, I would need to know the areas in which I am deficient. Will you tell me those areas?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit Score
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 06:35:14 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Dennis L. Bowman" <104230.1016@compuserve.com>

Yes, it does.

If I am denied a mortgage loan based, in part, on a credit score, in order to get the highest possible score, or, even just to raise my score, I would need to know the areas in which I am deficient. Will you tell me those areas?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit Score
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:45:53 -0400
From: "Dennis L. Bowman" <104230.1016@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Thanks for you message. I have been out of the office for more than a week and am just now able to respond. The credit grantor should be looking at both the credit score and the specifics of the credit report in making a decision. Of course, the score may also be a customized score developed specifically from criteria from the credit grantor. Consequently, the credit grantor is in the best position to look at your entire credit history and provide answers to how you may better meet his/her criteria. Again, the score represents what's in the credit report. Looking at the credit report specifics would help determine how to best affect the score. On-time payments, over-all debt burden, delinquencies, etc. Because of the growing interest in scores, Equifax is looking at ways to help educate consumers more directly about scores along with credit grantors, but there is nothing immediately available yet.


Subject: Re: Credit Score
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:43:58 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Dennis L. Bowman" <104230.1016@compuserve.com>

I thought I would give you a week to see if you came up with a way to educate us.

In the meantime, if you are still working on that, maybe you could help me if I made my question more specific:

I understand that (and please correct me if I am wrong) there is only one risk score you produce used for underwriting FannieMae qualified conventional loans: the "Beacon" score. I believe that score uses the same model for all applicants requesting credit under the FannieMae guidelines. Is there more than one scoring model utilized in underwriting FannieMae conventional mortgage loans?

If not, there is no variance in the score calculation for any group or individual evaluated by credit grantors utilizing the conventional loan program. In other words, for loans qualified for purchase by FannieMae, using your service, all applicants' credit, nationwide, is scored using the same model: the "Beacon" score. Please correct me if I am wrong. For FannieMae qualified conventional underwriting that you sell to credit grantors, do you have more than one model?

Will you tell me precisely how to achieve a perfect risk score used for FannieMae conventional loan underwriting, otherwise known as the "Beacon" score?

--
Greg Fisher Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit Score
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 02:58:01 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: 104230.1016@compuserve.com, gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

It was 29 days ago that I last wrote to you.

Have you decided against educating us?

When will you give us the information?

Will you tell me precisely how to achieve a perfect risk score used for FannieMae conventional loan underwriting, otherwise known as the "Beacon" score?

Is that an unreasonable request?

Will you please explain why I can't have the information?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: credit score
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:41:11 -0400
From: "Dennis L. Bowman" <104230.1016@compuserve.com>
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Mr. Fisher,
Contrary to what you may think based on my belated reply, I have not forgotten your questions. In follow-up to your most recent questions -- There are a number of risk sores that can be used throughout the industry for mortgages. Within just Equifax, it is not accurate to say that Equifax offers only The Beacon Score. The Beacon Score is an Equifax version of a general credit score. We offer other scores for specfic puposes as well. Among these is "The Mortgage Score" developed by Equifax based on statistical analysis specifically of people with mortgages. A lender is free to choose the model they think works best for its lending requirements for a given mortgage - Beacon, Mortgage Score, etc.. Other companies offer competing scores that lenders may choose as well. Many of the scores being offered have been originally developed by a company called Fair Issac and subsequently packaged for use by credit reporting agencies or others under various brand names. If you want more specifics on scoring than what I have been able to provide - I suggest you feel free to call Fair Issac (known as FICO) at 800/777-2066. I believe this is a consumer number for people with questions about scoring.

I am sorry you feel as though I am not answering your questions. But I believe I have done my best to address your issues, explaining the basis of scores and the unique nature of their use. You seem very intent on knowing how to achieve a "perfect score" in an area where "perfection" or a good score is defined differently by different lendors and when the basis of the score is simply a solid and good credit history. Having a good credit history and rating involves issues such as on-time payment history, paid down account balances, no large numbers of open but unused credit lines, no large numbers of inquiries from a person asking for more credit, no collections, bankruptcies, etc. I have previously explained that the specific mathmatical formulas and statistical analyses are areas of proprietary information and are not provided. The bottom line is if you have an overall good credit report and history you should have an overall good score. Your most important action would be to maintain a good credit history and get copies of your credit report to make sure this history is accurately reflected.

Again, I suggest you call the number above to see if FICO can be of more detailed help or better communicate the scoring basis. I apologize for apparently not being able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. However, I believe I've done my best to provide answers to your questions.


Subject: Re: credit score
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:04:47 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Dennis L. Bowman" <104230.1016@compuserve.com>

Indeed, you have; and please don't put your employment at risk by giving me secrets.

I understand the Fair Credit Reporting Act and other federal laws allow Fannie Mae (chartered by the Federal Government) to use credit scoring in their standards, but that credit reporting agencies like Equifax don't have to reveal the score formulae. In other words, the government is simply relying on your word that your credit score is valid, and not asking how you arrived at it. Or, the government is in cahoots with you and decided that even if THEY know the formula, the public (me included) doesn't get to know.

But the last time I checked, America is still government "of the people, by the people, and for the people." I am part of The People. What you do with your private lenders is up to you--I have no qualms. However, when my tax dollars are at work (as with the FNMA), I get to know everything (except in the case of military secrets). I like to know how my money is being spent. Don't you like to know how yours is spent?

Your answer (and Equifax's, if you speak for them) is vague. What is a "large number" of unused credit lines? Three? Seven? Thirty? 654? A "solid" and "good" credit history? An "overall good credit report and history"?

Suppose I have 3 children, the oldest wanting to start college. I only have enough money this month to pay the tuition, or the car payment, but not both. What do I do? If only I knew what effect that late payment would have. I decide to pay the car payment because having "good credit" (something I'm not quite sure of) is paramount in getting a mortgage-- something I want for the younger two children next year. The oldest's education can wait.

By the way, all evidence I have says that the Beacon score is the only score from Equifax that is used for conventional loan underwriting meeting the FNMA guidelines--a point you didn't specifically dispute. I presume it still to be true.

The higher the credit score, the better... at least in the case of Beacon which I asked you about. It's right in the FNMA guidelines. And that's the point. The higher my score, the lower my rate--and the easier and with fewer requests for documents my mortgage will be approved. But neither you, nor Fair Isaac (to whom I have already written and wasted $25 on to get a book written by a retiree full of generalities like yours, including the statement, "The faults and errors in the book are entirely mine; I have not submitted it for anyone's approval") will give me the way to the highest score. In a nutshell: government makes guidelines for approval, but does not tell citizens how to be approved. "Just be sure your credit score is over 620." "How do I get a 620?" "Sorry, we can't tell you that."

Let's face it, what we're really talking about here is money. A guy who applies for a mortgage pays for a credit report, is denied for poor or lack of credit, has no idea how to increase his score (and neither does his lender because you won't even disclose the formula to them) and finally gets his loan on the third try. He didn't know that (and I'm only guessing to make a point) having a balance at the limit on his 5 credit cards cost him more points than having a $500 collection. So he ran up his balances on the cards to pay the collection. Wrong move. 5 cards at the limit is worse than a $500 collection. Mortgage delayed 6 months. Equifax collects fees for each application. Legal. FCRA. Keep the consumer in the dark...

... Thank you for your time; you have been helpful on this level. For what it's worth, you seem more concerned than your counterpart at Experian (and certainly more than the Pensylvania secret agents with decoder rings, TransUnion).

Let me hear from the person or group who actually has the authority to approve my request to know my score and how you arrived at it.

What is your supervisor's name and email address?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: credit score
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 01:50:17 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Dennis L. Bowman" <104230.1016@compuserve.com>

My last email to you was Tuesday, June 24, 1997, over a week ago.

What is your supervisor's name and email address?

Or, who is the person or people who have the authority to approve my request for the credit score of my credit file?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

**********

Tuesday, July 8, 1997

What is your supervisor's name and email address?

Or, who is the person or people who have the authority to approve my request for the credit score of my credit file?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: credit score
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:35:51 -0400
From: "Dennis L. Bowman" <104230.1016@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Mr. Fisher,
Thanks for your email. The following is the appropriate person to contact. He does not have an internet email link and therefore won't be able to communicate via the internet. However, I've provided below both a phone number for you to use and an address to write. Again, I'm sorry I have not been able to explain the score to your satisfaction. However, I'm glad to know based on one of your earlier emails that I've tried to be more responsive than others you may have contacted. Please Contact:
Pete Thayer
Director, Office of Consumer Affairs
Equifax
P.O. Box 105139
Atlanta, GA 30348
Phone: 770/612-2709


Subject: Message to Pete Thayer
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:26:50 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: dave.mooney@equifax.com

Mr. Mooney:

I spoke with Mr. Thayer. He told me to use your email address to contact him.

10/21/97

Mr. Thayer:

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest possible score?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Equifax
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 18:03:05 UT
From: "Gary Poch"
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Greg Fisher -

Point scoring models take into consideration many variables. There is no right or wrong number of revolving bank accounts or any other type of accounts.

A highest score does not exist. All scores are relative to one another. Each Equifax business customer decides what score to use on a particular situation. These customers determine what an acceptable range of scores is for them.

If you have any additional questions please contact us at 800-836-7703 and a representative will be glad to assist you.

Peter Thayer


Subject: Re: Equifax
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:47:28 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Gary Poch

10/28/97

Robert M. Cutrone
Vice President, Consumer Affairs
Equifax
Subject: Message to Pete Thayer
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:26:50 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: dave.mooney@equifax.com

Mr. Mooney:

I spoke with Mr. Thayer. He told me to use your email address to contact him.

10/21/97

Mr. Thayer:

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest possible score?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Gary Poch wrote:
>
> Mr. Greg Fisher -
>
> Point scoring models take into consideration many variables. There is no
> right or wrong number of revolving bank accounts or any other type of
> accounts.
>
> A highest score does not exist. All scores are relative to one another. Each
> Equifax business customer decides what score to use on a particular situation.
> These customers determine what an acceptable range of scores is for them.
>
> If you have any additional questions please contact us at 800-836-7703 and a
> representative will be glad to assist you.
>
> Peter Thayer


GP: Hello, this is Gary Poch.
GF: Mr. Poch, this is Greg Fisher.
GP: Yes.
GF: Do you remember my name?
GP: Yes, you had a question about scoring models.
GF: Yes, the 800 number that Mr. Thayer gave me is, well, they were less than receptive to my question, uhm, claiming that Equifax doesn't even produce a score called the Beacon.
GP: Uh, huh. Well, tech-, I mean, technically, Beacon is a, is a product that belongs to Fair, Isaac Company, a modeling company.
GF: It's not one of your trademarks?
GP: The Beacon product?
GF: Um-hm.
GP: Beac-- I, Beacon belong--is... the model, the actual model, belongs to Fair, Isaac and is proprietary to them.
GF: Um-hm. Is the Beacon one of your products?
GP: We sell Beacon, but so does TRW, or Experian and Trans Union.
GF: Well, no, they-they have different names for them.
GP: Right. But it--
GF: They don't sell a BEACON score.
GP: O.K. But it's the sa-they're selling the same mod-it's the-they're-they're buying-it's the Fair, Isaac model.
GF: Fair, Isaac model. Uhm, so, I-I'm so confused about this, ah, all I'm trying to find out is, you know--because I'm going to apply for a mortgage--how to get the highest score--
GP: O.K.
GF: -- but it doesn't seem like anybody can tell me, or wants to tell me.
GP: Well actually, we sent you an e-mail. It's not--the highest score is-is-is relative, and-and to repeat what we sent in the e-mail... I'm going to make us some numbers. Say the model is based out of a thousand points.
GF: No, I want to say the model actually is--the Beacon score.
GP: I don't-I don't-I don't know what the model could be used, sir.
GF: The Beacon.
GP: Say-all right, so say the maximum score is eight-hundred and thirty-eight. O.K?
GF: Well, we're not going to say that because I've already talked to Fair, Isaac and they told me it was three-fifty to nine-hundred.
GP: (pause) O.K., so it's 900. I was-I was under the impression that it was--O.K., so- so the score's nine-hundred, O.K?
GF: Yeah.
GP: And there's ten mortgage companies, right?
GF: Right.
GP: A, B, one through ten-there's ten mortgage companies.
GF: Right.
GP: Each mortgage company will have their own cutoff. O.K? Meaning: company number one may expect you to have a 600, where company two may look for six-ten, company three may look for five-fifty and so on, so, that would depend on-on the individual- you know, mortgage company or banking institution that you do business with on what score you need to be approved for the mortgage.
GF: Right.
GP: And they set that threshold themself. You know, they determine- I guess, how-how, they determine the risk that they like to undertake, or, and-
GF: I understand.
GP: O.K-- so, how do you get a higher score, I mean-- it-the model's a complex algorithm-- an-an-and, I would-what I would say is if you have a lot of high balances...
GF: Uh-hm.
GP: ... you know, that-that would probably lower your score.
GF: Uh-hm.
GP: Ah, another thing that might lower your score: if you were to apply for-for credit a lot recently, the-then that could-that could potentially lower the score. Uhm-
GF: Yeah, I-I've looked into this for the past five months, and that's-that's always the answers I'm getting--
GP: O.K., well then-
GF: I understand that.
GP: O.K.
GF: ... but, (chuckles)-
GP: What-
GF: The questions remains: let's say that the-the reason codes on the credit report with the credit score (and I get four reason codes, right?).
GP: Yes. Right.
GF: O.K., you know what I'm talking about.
GP: Yes.
GF: What if they say I have too many, or too few, revolving bank accounts, or I think they call them "bank revolving accounts"...
GP: O.K.
GF: ... meaning "credit cards." (laugh)(pause) How do I know how many to shut down, or how many to get to get the right number so that that's not a reason any more?
GP: Uh-huh. I would say if you're seeing not enough that would probably mean that there's-you probably-you have-I don't know, maybe you only have one, or zero revolving accounts.
GF: Mm-hmm.
GP: If you have to many-- see, one thing-- sometimes too many could mean that you might only have five accounts, but you might have lines of credit of 15-thousand on five accounts.
GF: That's a different reason.
GP: Huh.
GF: That's a different reason. The NUMBER of bank revolving accounts is a specific reason and that's what I'm talking about.

(pause)

GF: They-there are reason codes and that's just one specific area. And that's why I'm narrowing-in on it.
GP: Well, I guess what I-I guess what I'll say there is it-it-it's possible that the customer,,, it-they could have that model customized to pick up a certain number of accounts. I don't know-I don't know what the magic number is.
GF: The customer?
GP: The business customer that buys the model. (pause) See, and I guess-
GF: They can have it customized?
GP: Yes. And actually that's how-
GF: No, they can't. We're talking about the Beacon score that Fannie Mae requires.
GP: Well, a lot-a lot of banks that are-you know, that-that I know-that I know do business with Equifax, you know, have models set for the-have their own models.
GF: We're talking about the Fair, Isaac model-just the one you mentioned earlier.
GP: No, I'm talking about-there-there isn't just one model, sir; there are hundreds of scoring models. And, you know, and some of them-they just take the information from the credit reporting agency and once they get it in-house, and then they score the file themselves.
GF: And the only one that I'm concerned with-
GP: -is Beacon
GF: -is Beacon, the Fair, Isaac model, the one that you guys sell to the smaller credit bureaus so that they can give it to me, or the one that Equifax produces itself so that--they put it on their report so that the guy can do a conventional mortgage, and-
GP: I think-
GF: -I think I'm being very specific about that: there is only ONE Beacon score.
GP: The number-the information that you're asking for is proprietary information belonging to the Fair, Isaac Company. I don't have that information. And, it's my be-it's my understanding that-that they-they're not going to release that to somebody else because they consider that to be proprietary information. They-that-that-you know-that's they're business, and they make, you know, scoring models.
GF: So they're the ones I have to talk to.
GP: I-I would-I would-I-I don't know if they're-I don't believe that they're going to disclose that information-I believe that they consider that to be proprietary.
GF: Yeah, I've heard that word a lot.
GP: O.K. I'm not-I'm really not refer-I-I'm not-I really think that-
GF: Let me get this right, Gary.
GP: O.K.
GF: Is it Equifax's official position to me that you have no idea how to get the highest possible score and what's the right number of revolving bank accounts for me to have to get the highest possible score?
GP: Well, ye-I-I'll say, "yes" and it is with one-with one clarification in that: you can't just focus in on one a-you can't just focus in on the number of bank accounts. Because while you could have-while you could have bank accounts, your credit file could-could be-could have other accounts, or other situations on file, that create a different set of circumstances. You can't both-I-I believe they look at like 32 or 33-
GF: I know.
GP: -kinds of information simultaneously.
GF: Well, let me just put it to you this way: let's say that that's a reason code on my credit score. And I see it, and I say, "too many bank revolving accounts."
GP: Right.
GF: So, I find out that bank revolving accounts means MasterCards, VISAs, and... uhm, Discover Cards. And then I say to myself, "well, I've got to eliminate a couple of these."
GP: Uh-huh.
GF: How many do I eliminate: 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, or four-hundred and sixty-three?
GP: Right. And I guess what-I guess my answer to you-but it's not answering your question, I under-I-I see your position- is that you can't look at just-even though I know your saying, "well, I know I'm just focusing on that one point", you know they're saying you have too many bank accounts-revolving bank accounts.
GF: Mm-hmm.
GP: But I-the way-the way the-my understanding-my understanding-and I have a good understanding of how the models work-that the models don't-each element doesn't necessarily operate or function in isolation, that, it's looking a the whole file at the same time, and it's looking for different types of scenarios, and it's-it's only-
GF: I understand all that. (Laughing) I understand completely that it's a symbiotic relationship with all the other-it's called regression analysis.
GP: It also, sometimes it can-
GF: BUT, nobody's giving us any concrete information, here.
GP: But-well the thing is, though-you also have to take into account the dates fr-the date-the dates from four to five accounts and all that stuff-
GF: I know. I know. It's very rubbery. It's very liquid, and it changes constantly--
GP: Right.
GF: --and it's a moving target, and nobody's going to be able to tell me. But yet they tell me tell what this reason is, and now I don't know how many bank revolving accounts to close.
GP: Is that what has happened to your personal account? That you--
GF: Yes. I-I-there's no information here for me to-to grasp, and, all they're doing is telling me: "well, your credit score is too low..." I'm saying this theoretically, Gary.
GP: Yes.
GF: It hasn't happened to me.
GP: O.K.
GF: But even so...
GP: It sounds like you've done a lot-
GF: EVEN SO, nobody can give me that answer. Nobody WILL give me that answer. And they hide behind this "it's proprietary information", well, I don't care if it's proprietary information, or not. I want to know. But, I guess I'll have to talk to Fair, Isaac about that.
GP: Yeah, and I'll tell-I don't believe that they're going to give you a magic number.
GF: They haven't. They already haven't. Ah, O.K. Ah, Geeminy Christmas.
GP: I don't think-Sir, I wish I could say something to help. All I would say is-is if you do feel like you do have too many accounts, I'd recommend, you know-you know, closing them-closing down a couple if them.
GF: Mm-hm.
GP: But, at the same time, though, that's not going to be the only factor-you already know that-that's going to be taken into account with this decision system.
GF: Yea, so, I could close down a couple of accounts, or I could close down ONE, so that I could re-look at my credit score in 60 DAYS-because that's how long it's going to take it to get through the system-
GP: Exactly.
GF: -at least 60, and I may be wrong.
GP: I wouldn't recommend-see, my recommendation would be-wouldn't necessarily be to go out and keep having someone pull the file and posting inquiries to your file because that could lower the score-and that would lower your score for other reasons... [brief loss of audio due to changing tape] ... and they still show historical payment, that's closed... so you're not going to r-- I don't think you could run the risk of going where: if you closed three accounts and you really only needed to close two, I don't think you could go too far if you closed three because they'd still be there from a historical standpoint-I the-in the short term. So they'd be there-
GF: You sure about this?
GP: Huh? Y-Well, because it-the-the model takes into account the date reported. But y-but it-everything-like you said-is on a moving scale, so, but at a certain point, the date reported would-would be too far in the past, and won't have as much of an impact on the score. Y-that... I know that date...(unitelligble) reporting date plays a big part of the score.
GF: "Too few, or "two many" "bank revolving accounts" are reason codes.
GP: Yeah.
GF: I mean, it's the same reason code, it's just going one way or another... and, still, no one has given me the answer to the question. I mean-y-you're trying, and I appreciate that, and I'm-I have a good understanding of how the system works, but... it's not the answer. And, apparently, this is legal (laughs).
GP: Well, the thing is-but-but I guess-- you're going to say, you want someone to say you need four accounts... right?
GF: Yea.
GP: And the-and the thing is y-- th-no one-- you see no one will say that to you because no-- every bank has their own set-- of, you know, some sort-
GF: Fannie Mae-
GP: ... saying to y...
GF: Fannie Mae
GP: Huh?
GF: Fannie Mae's criteria.
GP: But-that's-but four accounts doesn't make the score 650, if that's the cutoff, hypothetically. You know-four accounts is-is a factor that could either raise or lower the score, but it's not the only factor.
GF: It's one of four that they provide with the-with the credit report to the mortgage banker or broker or whatever... and that's what I'm-I think I've got a good grasp of this but-
GP: Good.
GF: -I think I'm not getting the answers. Let me ask you this: Uhm, I-I-I don't like to do things this way, but I'm-I'm pushed against the wall, and I have to get an answer, and I have to resolve this. Mr. Thayer just r-referred me to that 800 number and, those people just absolutely, positively DENIED that Equifax produces a "Beacon" score anyway."
GP: Well I going to ad-- I'm going to address that because that's incorrect information.
GF: Uhm-hmm.
GP: I helped Mr. Thayer send the email to you (pause)
GF: Right (pause). OK.
GP: So-
GF: So-y-you do produce the Beacon?
GP: Well, I mean we-we-we have I mean-- like I said, I mean, if, if Beacon is-is a model that Fair Isaac created. But you're right, we sell the Beacon product.
GF: Right
GP: So, I'm not-I'm-- so I'm-- what I'm saying is that what they told you is not a hundred percent correct, so I'm going to address that with that team.
GF: You might want to get in touch with her, her name's Brie.
GP: OK.
GF: Uhm... she's a supervisor. She hung up on me. (laughs) It was not a happy conversation. Anyway, ah, thanks for your time, Gary.
GP: OK
GF: Ah, I hate to do this, but I don't have any choice. Can I get Mr. Thayer's supervisor, and I'll write him a note.
GP: You want to write-yeah, that's fine. His name is Bob Cutrone
GF: Uhm-hmm.
GP: He's the vice president of everything.
GF: C-U-T-R-O-N-E?
GP: Right.
GF: Would it be alright for me to reach him through your email address? Uh, equifax_information_service_center?
GP: The best thing to do would be-just, you know, to send it-you can send it-I'll give you his P.O. box to mail it to.
GF: Go ahead.
GP: You can send it to Equifax, then it's P.O.box 740250, Atlanta, GA [couldn't hear zip].
GF: OK. Ah, I-I, that'll take a long time. And that's the-- another point. Um... if I have to wait weeks for...
GP: He, I mean... what are you looking for, what are you looking for?
GF: ... these, this
GP: He not going to give...
GF: The same answer-- the same question.
GP: I mean, I report directly to Bob Cutrone also, just as Pete does. And... we... he... Bob not going to have any additional information. Not trying to give you the runaround here; you're more than welcome to communicate with Bob, but he's not going to have any additional information.
GF: Then I'll ask for his boss. Somebody's going to have to give it to me. You... it's impossible to do business this way. You can't just say, "Well, here's the score. Your loan's turned down because of this... and we're not going to tell you how to get a higher score. See you later, goodbye."
GP: Well Equifax isn't doing that. And we're not in... we're not... we're not... we're not turning anyone down for a loan.
GF: Ah, my loan was turned down BECAUSE of the Beacon score, theoretically.
GP: Well-I mean that's the model that they-or the-or the-or the... vehicle that they choose to use...
GF: ... and you produce the score; it's your product; you're responsible for it. I want to know how to get the highest score. Nobody seems to want to tell me. And that's the issue, if you want to pass it on to Mr. Cutrone. I-I'll-I'LL WRITE to him at his post office boss, but I think it's ridiculous that I have to do that if he has an email address.
GP: He doesn't-we don't-we don't have-we don't have an email address-an outside email address.
GF: Mr. Mooney does. I could send it to him.
GP: (pause) I-If you want, you could-I'll give you an-an email address that you can send-you can send-you can return it to the email address that I sent to you on: The Equifax Information Service Center.
GF: OK; I'll do that And you'll give it to him?
GP: I'll give-I'll give it to him.
GF: Thanks for your time, again, Mr. Poch [pronounced Poke].
GP: It-it-it's actually, it's actually-it's pronounced "pock" like the "h" with a "k".
GF: I beg your pardon.
GP: OK.
GF: Have a good day.
GP: Thanks
GF: Bye-bye.


Mr. Cutrone:

The representatives at the telephone number 800-836-7703 did not answer my questions.

I understand that one reason an Equifax Beacon score may not be at its highest is that the credit report has too few or too many bank revolving accounts. Please correct me if I am wrong.

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"? Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? Two? Five? Ten? 463?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score? To clarify, using Mr. Thayer's logic: how do I attain the highest possible score "relative to all other scores"? I presume he means relative to all other persons' credit reports.

What is the highest score? Or, what is the highest score anyone has ever attained?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Re: Equifax
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 11:53:48 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: equifax_information_service_center@classic.msn.com

Robert M. Cutrone
Vice President, Consumer Affairs
Equifax

Mr. Cutrone:

I wrote to you a week ago. The message is below.

When will you respond?

[10/28/97 message attached here]


Subject: Equifax
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 97 14:54:12 UT
From: "Gary Poch"
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

----------
From: Postmaster
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 1997 1:45 PM
To: equifax_information_service_center@classic.msn.com
Subject: Nondeliverable mail

--UPIMSRGSMTP10kioQ(s3+?0cp.7mEAgAdsnVoy6

------Transcript of session follows -------
Connection to erinet.net failed. No Ip address found from
msn.com-10.205.129.85
gfisher@erinet.net
Server received Winsock error Host not found.

--UPIMSRGSMTP10kioQ(s3+?0cp.7mEAgAdsnVoy6
Content-Type: message/rfc822; charset=us-ascii

Received: from upmajb08 - 204.95.110.71 by msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:31:15 -0800
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 97 18:28:38 UT
From: "Gary Poch"
Message-Id:
To: gfisher@erinet.net
Subject: Equifax
Return-Path: equifax_information_service_center@classic.msn.com

Mr. Fisher,

Please contact me directly at 770-375-2708. Thank you.

Robert Cutrone

--UPIMSRGSMTP10kioQ(s3+?0cp.7mEAgAdsnVoy6--


Friday, November 7, 1997, Call to Robert Cutrone ("Bob Cutrone"), Equifax 770-375-2708.

RC: Good morning, this is Bob Cutrone.
GF: Mr. Cutrone, it's Greg Fisher.
RC: Hey, Greg, how are you doing?
GF: Good.
RC: Um, I guess Gary had passed along a copy of your e-mail and I told him rather than bounce e-mails back and forth I'd rather, um, answer questions directly.
GF: Well, sure. Go ahead.
RC: Well, why don't you give me the questions and then…
GF: Oh, O.K. Ah, to attain the highest credit score known as the Beacon, how can I tell what's the right number of bank revolving accounts?
RC: O.K., and I… and I guess the answer… and unfortunately I'll probably give you the answer you might have heard before… there, there is no right number. I mean those, those scoring models are based on statistical… you know, regression analysis that one variable affects what's… how it reads another.
GF: If a reason code says that I have two few or two many bank revolving accounts, how can I tell how many to add or subtract to avoid having that as a reason the score is not higher?
RC: Um, again, you could eliminate all of them and then something else might come up as a, as a reason. What, what, what… if it prints out at the top of a report, all it's giving you is one of, one of the top reasons.
GF: Uh, huh.
RC: Ahhm, but, but again there could be an… oth-other reasons behind that. If you, if you eliminated one reason, there-there-there could be another. Um, just so… there is no one magical number that you want to hit.
GF: I see. Do-do you think that makes the reasons… um, useless?
RC: Are we talking about… I mean, a particular situation? I mean maybe I'm able to address your concerns if I'm able to look at your report and-and-and see what-what problem I'm trying to fix.
GF: No.
RC: You're-you're asking me... you're asking me for what-what really is proprietary information and I've worked with folks that write those models, and you know, some of them had master's, some of them had doctorates in econometric modeling. I mean, so it's not as simple as, "give me-give me one-one value for one variable." Ah, you if you have a particular concern as a consumer, I-I'll be glad to try to address that, but I mean to-to sit down and discuss and explain how credit scoring and our models work, I mean, I don't-I don't feel obliged to do that.
GF: Yes, and the Fair Credit Reporting Act says you don't have to. Um, and that's o.k., uh, you're well within your rights not to. But it doesn't make any sense to me that nobody can tell me, ah, if that's a reason what action I can take to eliminate it. Um, so how do I get the highest possible score?
RC: I don't know if there is such a thing.
GF: Fair, Isaac told me that 900 was the highest.
RC: And, it might be.
GF: You don't know.
RC: And I don't know if every credit grantor would look at that as a positive.
GF: A higher score than a lower score… on the-on the Beacon for instance. We're talking about conventional loan underwriting—that's my question.
RC: Um, hm.
GF: Ehh…
RC: And a-and it would… again it would depend on the grantor and what they wanted to look at.
GF: Ahh, O.K.
RC: You may have one grantor that would get a score of 900, and because that might be unusual to see, might-might look deeper into the report and do more research. You'd be--you would expect scores to come out into a somewhat normal curve and, you would-you would question the out-lyers.
GF: Well the grantor, in this case, would be the ultimate um, servicer of the loan: Fannie-Mae and Freddie Mac. But you don't think that they would see a 900 as positive?
RC: I didn't say that. I said they would probably see that as an exceptional score and what they choose to do with it would be completely up to them. I know when I was granting credit, yea, if I saw a 900, I would dig a little bit deeper because they're uncommon. And I would make sure I'm not missing something.
GF: Hm.
RC: I mean-so-but again that's a subjective review based on my own experience.
GF: When you were a lender, what score would you have liked to…
RC: It varied…
GF: … have seen.
RC: It varied on the account and the product.
GF: Hm. O.K., ah, do you know what the highest score anyone has ever attained?
RC: I don't.
GF: Certainly it exists.
RC: Yeah, I'm sure, I mean it's not an infinite number in the field. I mean, so there's- there's no value going on in to upper ranges.
GF: Who has the answer to that question at your company?
RC: Of what the highest score is?
GF: Yes.
RC: I-I know what—I know the answers to a lot of these questions, but again it's proprietary... and-and I don't feel compelled… if-again, if you have a particular situation and you want me to look at your report and discuss items with it, I'll be glad to do that.
GF: No, I think I've made my questions clear and succinct. I don't see any reason that somebody can't answer them.
RC: Well, and I-and I think I've given you the answers that are equally clear and succinct. I mean, you're asking for: "how do our models work." That-that's proprietary information.
GF: Meaning that… it's ahh, something that you're not going to give me.
RC: Well that, that's correct. I mean, yeah. It-it-it-it-it-it's our product that we've developed—and that Fair, Isaacs has developed and, that's what we do for a living. I mean so there… to share it through: "here's how we run that model" would be…
GF: Um, hm.
RC: … not ah, prudent business.
GF: Yes, uh, I don't mean to belabor the point, but if you have, ah, reason codes at the bottom of a credit report, and one of them says that I have too many "bank revolving accounts" or my credit, on a… on a credit line is too high… ah, how do I know what action to take to correct those problems?
RC: (long pause) Well, I-I think that answer would be somewhat obvious. I mean if it's saying you have too many, then the score is saying that it is pushing you up into a… that would be a reason for risk if anyone chose to grant you further credit. That your exposure is a reason for concern.
GF: If it says "too few," do I add one?
RC: No there's no right a… we'll reply on the same field. I mean, I don't know your report, so I cannot sit here and tell you "here's how to adjust your score." Again, each variable—you change one field in the calculation and it'll have an impact on the weight of another.
GF: If I give you my report and allow you to look at it, then you'll be able to tell me?
RC: I could discuss with you some—how one variable might affect another. But I'm not going to sit there and say "here's the calculation," for you to work it through.
GF: I'm not asking for that. Um, I'm asking how many accounts I need to add if the score says I that I have too few. Is it one, two, five, ten…?
RC: Well, I-I guess I'm not going to talk academics with you and that's what you're asking me to do. (pause) You've asked…
GF: Right, you not answering my…
RC: … how many do I have to get rid of, and if I have to few how many—I mean, so, I don't know where we're going with this.
GF: Well, that's not academics, that's just a question from a consumer that wants to get the highest score. And that's what I'm doing.
RC: And we're not running a game show. I mean, we're evaluating risk. We're not trying to have people get--achieve the highest score.
GF: (Laughs) But if it means that my mortgage is denied, I certainly want to get a higher score. (pause) That makes sense to you doesn't it?
RC: Yea.
GF: But nobody can tell me how many bank revolving accounts to add to get the highest score.
RC: I mean, I would-I would say I don't know—you know, I don't know what that number is. And I would say then I would need to start--if I were you I'd start canceling some if that was my concern… and close some of those lines.
GF: Um, hm. So, I should cancel one, and wait for sixty days until the new score comes out and then I'll know what kind of effect it has, right?
RC: If you choose to do that, you can do that.
GF: (laughs) Mr. Cutrone, who is your supervisor?
RC: His name is Bill Gastel.
GF: Bill… could you spell his last name?
RC: It's G-A-S-T-E-L.
GF: How would I contact him?
RC: I'll be glad to take your number and have him contact you.
GF: Ah, I don't want to give you my number.
RC: Well, I understand that, but you want me to give you proprietary information, but you don't want to give me a simple thing like a phone number.
GF: Ah, I've given you my e-mail address—you chose not to respond that way, so I called you at your behest. Uhm, you don't want to give me Mr. Gastel's—
RC: I'll be glad—
GF: … e-mail address…
RC: I'll be glad—
GF: … even his position?
RC: I'll be glad to have him return your call.
GF: You refuse to give me his position?
RC: His position is Senior Vice President.
GF: Of?
RC: Of Equifax.
GF: The entire company. (pause) Of the entire company?
RC: No, he's a senior vice president of the company.
GF: Of which department?
RC: Of Operations.
GF: And what is his phone number?
RC: I'll be glad to have him return your call.
GF: Is he in Atlanta?
RC: I'll be glad to have him return your call.
GF: Does he answer to Mr. Rogers?
RC: Sir, you're wasting both my time and yours at this point with questions that we are not obliged to answer. As I said, if you'd like, I'll take you number, I'll discuss with my superiors and see if they choose to return your call.
GF: You have my e-mail address. If he wants to respond, he can reach me that way. I refuse to give you my telephone number. Good-bye.
RC: Bye.


Subject: [Fwd: Re: Equifax]
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 12:22:47 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: bill.gastel@equifax.com

William Gastel, Senior Vice President, Operations
Equifax
P O Box 4081
Atlanta, Georgia 30302

[message from Robert Cutrone through Gary Poch]

Subject: Equifax
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 97 14:54:12 UT
From: "Gary Poch"
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Fisher,

Please contact me directly at 770-375-2708. Thank you.

Robert Cutrone

************

11/7/97

Mr. Gastel:

Mr. Cutrone would not tell me how to know how many accounts to add or eliminate if one of the reasons on my credit report that my score was not higher was that I have "too few" or "too many bank revolving accounts."

How can I tell what is the right number?

Would you please address the other questions in the message attached?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Subject: Re: Equifax
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:47:28 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Gary Poch
References: 1

10/28/97

Robert M. Cutrone
Vice President, Consumer Affairs
Equifax

Subject: Message to Pete Thayer
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:26:50 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: dave.mooney@equifax.com

Mr. Mooney:

I spoke with Mr. Thayer. He told me to use your email address to contact him.

10/21/97

Mr. Thayer:

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest possible score?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Gary Poch wrote:
>
> Mr. Greg Fisher -
>
> Point scoring models take into consideration many variables. There is no
> right or wrong number of revolving bank accounts or any other type of
> accounts.
>
> A highest score does not exist. All scores are relative to one another. Each
> Equifax business customer decides what score to use on a particular situation.
> These customers determine what an acceptable range of scores is for them.
>
> If you have any additional questions please contact us at 800-836-7703 and a
> representative will be glad to assist you.
>
> Peter Thayer

Mr. Cutrone:

The representatives at the telephone number 800-836-7703 did not answer my questions.

I understand that one reason an Equifax Beacon score may not be at its highest is that the credit report has too few or too many bank revolving accounts. Please correct me if I am wrong.

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"? Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? Two? Five? Ten? 463?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score? To clarify, using Mr. Thayer's logic: how do I attain the highest possible score "relative to all other scores"? I presume he means relative to all other persons' credit reports.

What is the highest score? Or, what is the highest score anyone has ever attained?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Equifax]]
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 00:01:52 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: bill.gastel@equifax.com

Mr. Gastel:

Will you respond?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Equifax]]
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:32:55 -0500
From: bill.gastel@equifax.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Fisher, no, I do not plan on responding via the Internet but would be glad to discuss with you should you wish to give me your phone number or you may call me at 404-885-6039. I do not believe that I can add anything to what Mr. Poch has already told you, but I will be happy to speak with you.

gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com on 11/11/97 12:01:52 AM

Please respond to gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com


Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Equifax]]
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 06:15:19 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: bill.gastel@equifax.com
References: 1

bill.gastel@equifax.com wrote:
>
> Mr. Fisher, no, I do not plan on responding via the Internet but would be
> glad to discuss with you should you wish to give me your phone number or
> you may call me at 404-885-6039. I do not believe that I can add anything
> to what Mr. Poch has already told you, but I will be happy to speak with
> you.

William Gastel, Senior Vice President, Operations
Equifax
P O Box 4081
Atlanta, Georgia 30302

Mr. Gastel:

Before calling, I'll submit this information to you so our conversation has a basis.

In my discussion with Mr. Cutrone, he told me "there is no right number" of bank revolving accounts to have to achieve the highest credit score known as the Beacon.

He said that I could eliminate the reasons: "too few", or "too many bank revolving accounts" and something else "might come up as a reason." I know that. That's an answer to a question I did not ask.

Again, the question is: how can I tell how many to eliminate or add to avoid that being a listed reason that the score is not higher? Logically, there is an answer in the form of a number. And, yes, I understand the symbiotic relationship between all the data on a credit report. But I have isolated one of your "reason codes" on which to base my question. So, assuming everything else on the credit report remains the same, and at a given point in time (so the passage of time is not a factor), it is possible to arrive at that number.

Mr. Cutrone went on to say that he didn't feel obliged to "sit down and discuss and explain how credit scoring and our [your] models work."

Again, I didn't ask for that. Just the answer to the simple questions I posed.

When I asked how to get the highest possible score, Mr. Cutrone said he didn't know "if there was such a thing." I told him that Fair, Isaac told me that the highest was 900. He said, "And it might be."

That's one reason I am contacting you, his superior. He did not know. If he did not know that, it is reasonable to assume that he doesn't really know "how credit scoring and our [your] models work."

He also did not know what the highest score ever attained is.

When I asked who at your company knew that, he said he knew the answer to a lot of my questions, but said that the information was "proprietary" and that I was asking for how your models work.

In the case of many of the other reasons listed on credit reports (those relating to derogatory listings), the action to take is obvious. For instance the resolution to the existence of delinquent payments, bankruptcy, or collection accounts is simple.

But the subtlety of how many "bank revolving accounts" to have, or how high to keep a balance on a credit line is not clear. But, once again, I am not after the latter. However, that is a portion of your algorithm I encourage you to explore, to the end of giving the public a higher understanding.

I told Mr. Cutrone that nobody can tell me how many bank revolving accounts to add to get the highest score. He said that if that were my concern, or if having too many was a concern, then I should close some of the credit lines.

I asked if I should cancel one, and wait for sixty days until the new score comes out, and then I would know what kind of affect it has (so I can tell if I canceled enough).

He said, "If you choose to do that, you can do that."

It is a guessing game. But not according to Mr. Cutrone who stated that he wouldn't "talk academics" with me.

Indeed, he said you're not running a game show, but rather, evaluating risk, and that you're not trying to have people achieve the highest score.

Finally, when I stated that I didn't want to give my telephone number, he said, "Well, I understand that, but you want me to give you proprietary information, but you don’t want to give me a simple thing like a phone number."

Did he mean that if I gave you my telephone number, you would release the formula? I didn't ask for that, but if you are offering it, I'll take it.

Mr. Cutrone was helpful on his level. Please express my thanks.

Here are the questions again:

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"? Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest score? Or, what is the highest score anyone has ever attained?

I will call you.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Wednesday, November 19, 1997 - Call to William Gastel, Senior Vice President Operations?), Equifax 404-885-6039

WG: Bill Gastel.
GF: Mr. Gastel, Greg Fisher.
WG: How are you Mr. Fisher?
GF: I'm fine thanks. (long pause) Ahm, did you have any responses to my e-mail I sent you last time?
WG: Ah, again, the only response I can give you is that I cannot identify what you want to know. I mean, I don't know the algorithms that control, ah, the score.
GF: Mm-hm.
WG: Um, it's proprietary information and we wouldn't give it out. And what you're asking for, I—I don't, I mean, I--the answer that you got from Gary, I think, was pretty much, uhm, the answer that you're going to find from anybody that you ask at Equifax.
GF: Mm-hm. Ah…
WG: There is no such thing as a perfect score, I—I don't know how you would do that. And, no, I don't know what you would remove or delete or add in order to create it.
GF: There is no such thing as a perfect score, but the highest score is a 900?
WG: No, no, I-I'm not saying that there isn't such a score—that you couldn't, I mean, that there, that 900 isn't the highest.
GF: Mm-hm.
WG: I'm saying I don't know how to create it.
GF: Mm-hm.
WG: I could not tell you that.
GF: O.K., um, and… if… the reason codes at the bottom of a credit report say that I have too few or too many bank revolving accounts, you can't tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract?
WG: No, I can't tell you that. I-I'm sure… ah… that possibly a statistician who created the algorithm could do that. Uhm, ah, you know, I'm not going to tell you that's not impossible to do.
GF: Mm-hm.
WG: Ah, but I believe that there'd be a tremendous amount of variation that would, ah, you know make changes for… every bit… whether you added something or deleted something.
GF: Right.
WG: I mean, and I don't know how somebody's going to explain all that to you. And I also don't know why you—you—you… I mean, I-I don't know why you want to know that. But I, you, you know, (laughs) I don't know how that's going to benefit you.
GF: Ah, just simply so I can have the highest score so that I can get the best rates and so that my… credit applications go smoothly and… that they're approved at all.
WG: Well…
GF: Doesn't that make sense to you?
WG: Y-Y-Y-Yeah, I guess it does to some degree. But, I-I-I will tell…
GF: To what degree?
WG: To what degree, what? I mean, eh, ah, eh, what-what, as long as they're approved, why do you care?
GF: Uhm, I have…
WG: Uh, uh, are you—uhp, are they being declined? Then that obviously is-is a problem. If they're not being declined, then, you know…
GF: Have you heard of variable, ah, pricing based on credit scoring?
WG: Pardon?
GF: Have you heard of va…
WG: Yes, I have…
GF: … riable pricing?
WG: Yes, I have. But I-I-I…
GF: That's why I want to know, then. You asked.
WG: Un-un-un… O.K… unfortunately, I cannot provide that to you.
GF: Mm-hm. You say it's proprietary information.
WG: That's correct.
GF: Proprietary-
WG: Our scores are. Yes.
GF: Mm-hm.
WG: I'm not talking about all scores; I d—I can't speak for… ah… other companies; I don't know. Fair, Isaacs obviously has a score, and, I-I would imagine they would consider that to be proprietary information.
GF: Fair, Isaac has a score? They are responsible for producing your Beacon, though, isn't that correct?
WG: Yes, they do, but they have not written all the information that-that goes into that.
GF: I see. O.K., uhm, I'm still at a loss though, uhm, because nobody can tell me if a reason code says I have to few or too many bank revolving accounts, I don't know how many to add or subtract in order…
WG: Well, I don't know how…
GF: … to optimize my credit score.
WG: I-I would not know how to uhm, tell you, that you're going to be-ever be able to find that out.
GF: Yeah, you said that.
WG: And if you're able to do it with Equifax, are you going to be able to do it with any other company; and how are you going to know what credit company that particular grantor is going to choose? I-I would imagine that, uh, TransUnion and-and Experian have similar models.
GF: For conventional underwriting, uh, three are required… conventional mortgage loan.
WG: That-then you're talking about…a, ah…a, ah
GF: A FannieMae/Freddie Mac qualified mortgage loan
WG: … a blended—a blended or a merged report.
GF: Yes. One that has three credit scores, ea…, one from each national repository.
WG: Right. Well, I-I-I… believe me, I wish I could help you, but unfortunately, I can't.
GF: Mm-hm, yeah, that's obvious. Uhm, s-- and you're saying that no one in your organization can.
WG: No one—not only—not only can they—not only can't they, they will not, to the best of my knowledge.
GF: Mm-hm. O.K. Um, who's your supervisor?
WG: My supervisor is the president of the company.
GF: And his nam…
WG: … and he is not going to discuss this with you.
GF: And…
WG: I guarantee it.
GF: Did you already talk to him about it?
WG: No, but I will… as soon as I hang up, and I guarantee you he won't talk with you about it.
GF: And his name is Mr. Rogers?
WG: His name is Mr. Rougeou.
GF: Can you spell it?
WG: No.
GF: (laughing) What's his first name?
WG: You don't need to know that because I-you're not going to speak with him.
GF: Well, I'd simply like to write him a letter.
WG: Well, you can write me the letter.
GF: Mr. Gastel, what are you hiding?
WG: I'm not hiding anything Mr. Fisher. You are becoming a pain in the neck to Equifax and I am not going to let this go any further. O.K., you've contacted enough people; we've responded, I think, to the best of our ability, and now it's getting to the point where I don't believe it's necessary to go any further. So, if you want to write any letters to us, please be kind enough to write them to me. If you write them to somebody else, it doesn't matter, they're going to end up on my desk anyhow, for the most part. So…
GF: I see. Would you be willing to give me the name of the board of directors?
WG: I would be g… willing to give you nothing else.
GF: My. Well, I'm sorry to bother you, Mr. Gastel, I'm sorry you feel that way.
WG: I-I'm sorry that you seem to be on this mission.
GF: Why are you sorry?
WG: Mr. Fisher--good-bye. (hung up).

Called Equifax main number (404-885-8000) to get this:
John Rougeou, Executive Vice President & Group Executive
Equifax
1600 Peachtree Street
Atlanta, Georgia 30309


Subject: Credit Scoring
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:15:04 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: bill.gastel@equifax.com

Mr. Gastel:

I called Mr. Rougeou's office, but they said there is no e-mail address I can use to contact him. Please forward this to him; I will send a copy in the mail.

Thank you.

John Rougeou, Executive Vice President & Group Executive
Equifax
1600 Peachtree Street NW
Atlanta, Georgia 30309

William Gastel was unable to answer my questions.

Here are the questions again:

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest score? Or, what is the highest score anyone has ever attained?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: [Fwd: Credit Scoring]
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:00:39 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: bill.gastel@equifax.com

Mr. Rougeou:

When will you respond?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:10:16 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: weber@equifax.com

Thomas F. Chapman
President and Chief Operating Officer
Equifax

Dear Mr. Chapman:

Please respond to the questions below. Mr. Gastel was unable to answer them. After e-mail messages November 21, November 26, and a letter through the U.S. Mail November 29 to Mr. Gastel's supervisor, Mr. Rougeou, I have not heard from Mr. Rougeou. When I called today to speak to Mr. Rougeou, his assistant said he was unavailable. She would not give me his supervisor's name.

Thank you.

**********

Subject: Credit Scoring
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:15:04 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: bill.gastel@equifax.com

Mr. Gastel:

I called Mr. Rougeou's office, but they said there is no e-mail address I can use to contact him. Please forward this to him; I will send a copy in the mail.

Thank you.

John Rougeou, Executive Vice President & Group Executive
Equifax
1600 Peachtree Street NW
Atlanta, Georgia 30309

William Gastel was unable to answer my questions.

Here are the questions again:

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest score? Or, what is the highest score anyone has ever attained?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

**********

Sincerely,
--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:32:32 -0500
From: customer.care@equifax.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

The highest score in numbers for Beacon is about 850. We are unable to advise you on what to do to increase your Beacon score. There are a few things to keep in mind.

More important than any "scoring" is the accuracy of your credit file. All items on you file may affect a credit grantors decision. If any item on your file is incorrect then that also may affect your "score".

Each credit grantor has there own criteria for granting or denying credit. Their criteria is how the score is derived based on credit file information and any external information provided by you or gathered by the company you applied with. So we cannot state whether open additional accounts or closing others will increase you score with the company you have currently applied with.

The reasons supplied by the company are the only information that is available as to why you were unable to get a loan or credit with that company and would be the only guide if you are still wanting to do business with them.

I would suggest asking you lender or mortgage underwriting what they are looking for in regards to your file. They have stated you have too few revolving accounts so it would be best to ask them. We do not have access to each companies criteria or the circumstances of the loan; i.e. collateral, down payment, income.

Thank you

gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com on 12/03/97 09:10:16 AM

Please respond to gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com


Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:37:36 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: customer.care@equifax.com
References: 1

Thomas F. Chapman
President and Chief Operating Officer
Equifax

Thank you for your answer, Mr. Chapman.

You answered a question I didn't ask. I didn't ask you to interpret lenders' decision criteria. I specifically asked about the "Beacon" score. Further, my file is accurate. As you have said that accuracy is more important, I can say scoring is more so. It is subjective.

One of your "reason codes" you state on your credit report about a consumer, for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, that your Beacon is not higher is that your report has too few, or too many bank revolving accounts. The lender is not in control of your Beacon or your criteria you use to calculate your Beacon. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You said you are unable to advise me on what to do to increase your Beacon score about my credit. If that is the case, then the reason codes are useless to the consumer or any advisor to the consumer.

I conclude not that you are unable to advise me, but that you are unwilling.

Thank you for your time.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:50:36 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: don.memberg@equifax.com
References: 1 , 2

Mr. Memberg:

Please forward this message to C.B Rogers.

Thank you.

**********

C.B. Rogers, Jr.
Chairman
Equifax

Dear Mr. Rogers:

Thomas F. Chapman was unable or unwilling to answer my questions. Our correspondence is below.

Please respond to these questions.

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?

If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

Thank you

Sincerely,

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

**********

Greg Fisher wrote:
>
> customer.care@equifax.com wrote:
> >
> > The highest score in numbers for Beacon is about 850. We are unable to
> > advise you on what to do to increase your Beacon score. There are a few
> > things to keep in mind.
> >
> > More important than any "scoring" is the accuracy of your credit file. All
> > items on you file may affect a credit grantors decision. If any item on
> > your file is incorrect then that also may affect your "score".
> >
> > Each credit grantor has there own criteria for granting or denying credit.
> > Their criteria is how the score is derived based on credit file information
> > and any external information provided by you or gathered by the company you
> > applied with. So we cannot state whether open additional accounts or
> > closing others will increase you score with the company you have currently
> > applied with.
> >
> > The reasons supplied by the company are the only information that is
> > available as to why you were unable to get a loan or credit with that
> > company and would be the only guide if you are still wanting to do business
> > with them.
> >
> > I would suggest asking you lender or mortgage underwriting what they are
> > looking for in regards to your file. They have stated you have too few
> > revolving accounts so it would be best to ask them. We do not have access
> > to each companies criteria or the circumstances of the loan; i.e.
> > collateral, down payment, income.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com on 12/03/97 09:10:16 AM
> >
> > Please respond to gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
> >
> > To: weber@equifax.com
> > cc: (bcc: Customer Care/Technology/Equifax)
> > Subject: Credit scoring
> >
> > Thomas F. Chapman
> > President and Chief Operating Officer
> > Equifax
> > Dear Mr. Chapman:
> > Please respond to the questions below. Mr. Gastel was unable to answer
> > them. After e-mail messages November 21, November 26, and a letter
> > through the U.S. Mail November 29 to Mr. Gastel's supervisor, Mr.
> > Rougeou, I have not heard from Mr. Rougeou. When I called today to
> > speak to Mr. Rougeou, his assistant said he was unavailable. She would
> > not give me his supervisor's name.
> > Thank you.
> > **********
> > Subject: Credit Scoring
> > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:15:04 -0500
> > From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
> > To: bill.gastel@equifax.com
> >
> > Mr. Gastel:
> > I called Mr. Rougeou's office, but they said there is no e-mail address
> > I can use to contact him. Please forward this to him; I will send a
> > copy in the mail.
> > Thank you.
> >
> > John Rougeou, Executive Vice President & Group Executive
> > Equifax
> > 1600 Peachtree Street NW
> > Atlanta, Georgia 30309
> > William Gastel was unable to answer my questions.
> > Here are the questions again:
> > To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
> > conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
> > what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?
> > Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
> > avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
> > If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?
> > And, how do I attain the highest possible score?
> > What is the highest score? Or, what is the highest score anyone has
> > ever attained?
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > **********
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
>
> Thomas F. Chapman
> President and Chief Operating Officer
> Equifax
>
> Thank you for your answer, Mr. Chapman.
>
> You answered a question I didn't ask. I didn't ask you to interpret
> lenders' decision criteria. I specifically asked about the "Beacon"
> score. Further, my file is accurate. As you have said that accuracy is
> more important, I can say scoring is more so. It is subjective.
>
> One of your "reason codes" you state on your credit report about a
> consumer, for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, that your Beacon
> is not higher is that your report has too few, or too many bank
> revolving accounts. The lender is not in control of your Beacon or your
> criteria you use to calculate your Beacon. Please correct me if I am
> wrong.
>
> You said you are unable to advise me on what to do to increase your
> Beacon score about my credit. If that is the case, then the reason
> codes are useless to the consumer or any advisor to the consumer.
>
> I conclude not that you are unable to advise me, but that you are
> unwilling.
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:37:42 -0500
From: customer.care@equifax.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

You Wrote:
>You answered a question I didn't ask. I didn't ask you to interpret
>lenders' decision criteria. I specifically asked about the "Beacon"
>score. Further, my file is accurate. As you have said that accuracy is
>more important, I can say scoring is more so. It is subjective.

You are correct scoring is in fact subjective. The same credit report shown to 3 separate companies all using Equifax can generate a different score based on each companies criteria. You may review our website at:

http://www.equifax.com/consumer/faqs/credit/faqtxt_b.html

You Wrote:
>One of your "reason codes" you state on your credit report about a
>consumer, for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, that your Beacon
>is not higher is that your report has too few, or too many bank
>revolving accounts. The lender is not in control of your Beacon or your
>criteria you use to calculate your Beacon. Please correct me if I am
>wrong.

We are a credit reporting agency. We do not grant credit. Therefore we are not making decisions on whether a company grants or denies credit to you. The Beacon score is a product provided by us for the credit grantor to enter THEIR criteria for granting credit. With all due respect you are incorrect in saying "The lender is not in control of your Beacon or your criteria you use to calculate your Beacon." the lender in fact is in FULL Control of Beacon.

In a situation where a lending has a huge number credit applications to review the cannot or may not want to process each one separately by hand. So the using a scoring system such as Beacon to automate the process that producing a number or "score" based on the criteria of that credit grantor and the type of transaction requested. The Credit reporting agency only REPORTS the credit and does not tell the lender how or whether they should transact business. Some companies state they need X number of accounts or they will not accept ANY late payment histories. This is what I was explaining in my previous E-mail. We have no access to each companies criteria therefore we cannot tell you how to increase you score.

Since the criteria is in fact decided and entered into beacon by the lender or credit grantor they are the only ones who are going to know how many accounts are needed or why THEY are making THEIR decisions.

You Wrote:
>You said you are unable to advise me on what to do to increase your
>Beacon score about my credit. If that is the case, then the reason
>codes are useless to the consumer or any advisor to the consumer.

Sir the reason codes are what are needed to increase your beacon score with that company.

For example. I apply for a credit card and they state as on of the reasons for denial that "Debt ratio to high" or "Current accounts at or above credit limits". While applications for credit cards do show consumers a "score" one is often generated. So if I still want to do business with that company in order to increase my score I might pay down some accounts or close some accounts, but to find out how much debt I would need to pay off or how much I would need to decrease my debt to income ratio I would need to contact the company I applied with and ask what the Debt to income ratios are or should I be at most 90% of my credit limits, or How many other accounts I would need to open to show I am skilled with my finances. Each company has their own criteria.

So changes that increase you score with one company my lower your score with another.

Review:
http://www.equifax.com/consumer/faqs/credit/faqtxt_k.html

You Wrote:
>I conclude not that you are unable to advise me, but that you are
>unwilling.

Well I'm sorry that you feel that way. Truly. You are simply asking something of us that we cannot assist you with in the manner that you are requesting. I will state that all of us are in customer care are more than willing to assist and go above and beyond daily to assist in any way that we can. Unfortunately in regards to Beacon the ONLY assistance we can render, has been and you should contact you lender for specific ways to do business with them, including their scoring criteria.

Thank you

gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com on 12/04/97 11:37:36 AM

Please respond to gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com


Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:41:24 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: customer.care@equifax.com
References: 1

Thomas F. Chapman
President and Chief Operating Officer
Equifax
1600 Peachtree Street, Northeast
Atlanta, Georgia 30309-2468

Dear Mr. Chapman:

Gee-willikers, mister, thanks for writing back so soon! I was just about to give up after that experience with Mr. Gastel! Phew! Man! I'm even going to send this to Mr. C.B. Rogers, the Chairman of the Board (wrote to hime yesterday, too), then on to the board of directors, to tell them what a great job you're doing! C.B., D.W., Lee, John, A.W. (what's with these guys and the initials, anyway? Southerners?), Robert, L. Phillip, Larry, D. Raymond, Betty, and Louis.

Lucky you put them on your web site and I saved the page on my hard drive! You REALLY ARE concerned about the little guy, aren't you, Mr. Chapman? I'll tell everybody I know!

I inserted my name in brackets like this: "You [Greg] Wrote:" so we could keep track of things!

O.K., let's go!

customer.care@equifax.com wrote:
>
> You [Greg] Wrote:
> >You answered a question I didn't ask. I didn't ask you to interpret
> >lenders' decision criteria. I specifically asked about the "Beacon"
> >score. Further, my file is accurate. As you have said that accuracy is
> >more important, I can say scoring is more so. It is subjective.

customer.care@equifax.com wrote:
>
> You are correct scoring is in fact subjective. The same credit report
> shown to 3 separate companies all using Equifax can generate a different
> score based on each companies criteria. You may review our website at:
>
> http://www.equifax.com/consumer/faqs/credit/faqtxt_b.html
>

Greg's response:

Whoopsy-daisy! Here's a couple of words from Fair, Isaac's web site (hooooooooo-boy! What a font of information!!!!! Those guys are smart! They're statisticians, you know!):

"Scoring is completely objective."

"Scoring looks only at information that has a proven link to repayment. It helps lenders avoid using information that is not predictive of future credit performance."

http://www.fairisaac.com/html/fast_facts___scoring.html

Yikes! Subjective! Objective! I'll have to be introspective to figure out those respective words! HEY! I'm a poet and don't kno...er, ah... REALIZE it! Er,... whatever.

I wasn't referring to CREDIT SCORING being subjective. Where you or I place more importance-- accuracy or credit scoring, is the subjectivity to which I referred. You say tomato; I say tomahto.

Mortgage companies that want to sell their conventional loans in the secondary market, through Freddie Mac, for instance, are recommended by Freddie Mac to request only one type of score. I really don't think they want the lender to tamper with it. Their using the same scoring system for applicants across the country ensures the loans in their portfolio are standardized so the investor is assured of the quality of the instrument. KnowhutImean?

Someday, they might use a different set of criteria for each lender, but we ain't there yet! No, sirree-Bob! I mean-- Tom! Not enough computers or people who know how to run 'em! Butcha know something else? Using the same scoring standard (I think you guys call them "MODELS"-- cool!) for every loan ensures fairness and equal treatment. Boy, I'm all for that. Aren't you?

Here's a quote from Freddie Mac (I think he's a Scot):

"Freddie Mac recommends requesting one type of credit score ­ either FICO bureau or MDS bankruptcy ­ from all three repositories, Equifax, Trans Union and Experian Information Solutions. Lenders should then select the middle of the three scores they obtain. If only two credit scores are available, the lender should use the one that indicates the higher risk. Freddie Mac also suggests that the credit score used be based on at least three tradelines."

There ya go! See it for yourself! Here's the page:... no wait a minute, let me use your word--

Review! (reminds me of second-year foreign language class! Thanks for the fond memories!):

http://www.freddiemac.com/function/fm-homby/creditsc.htm

Perhaps you are confused, confounded, dumfounded, nonplussed, baffled, or ney, possibly perplexed by the term "conventional mortgage loan." It is generally understood and reserved (BY PEOPLE IN CREDIT and lending) to describe those loans that end up as part of mortgage backed securities bought and sold through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, congressionally chartered corporations formed by the government for that purpose.

Now, speaking of the old U.S. of A., you know what else? Pretty soon, I can see it now, lenders are going to use automated underwriting for GOVERNMENT guaranteed mortgage loans (FHAs and VAs)! And you KNOW we (The People) gotta be fair then! Thank you Uncle Sam! I'm sure it's just around the corner...

Wait a minute... this just in.... can't... quite... make it out... gotta... getta... new... box... of... ribbons... for... teletype... ZIKES!

***FLASH*** HUD... HOME... LOANS... AUTOMATED... UNDERWRITING.

http://WWW.HUD.GOV/pr97-191.html

Saaaaaaaaaaaaay! I'll bet they're going to use the rock-solid standardized Beacon score, too! You said, "The Beacon score is a product provided by us for the credit grantor to enter THEIR criteria for granting credit." HELLO! Let me know: you think lenders will be "... in FULL Control of Beacon" for FHA loans?

Wwwwwwwwwwwwwhoah-Nellie! That would be a BIG old rhubarb!

Hey! Here's a birdseye view of your building!

http://maps.yahoo.com/yahoo/yt.hm?FAM=yahoo&CMD=GEO
&SEC=geo&AD2=1600+PEACHTREE+ST+NE&AD3=Atlanta%2C+GA

> You [Greg] Wrote:
> >One of your "reason codes" you state on your credit report about a
> >consumer, for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, that your Beacon
> >is not higher is that your report has too few, or too many bank
> >revolving accounts. The lender is not in control of your Beacon or your
> >criteria you use to calculate your Beacon. Please correct me if I am
> >wrong.

customer.care@equifax.com wrote:
>
> We are a credit reporting agency. We do not grant credit. Therefore we
> are not making decisions on whether a company grants or denies credit to
> you. The Beacon score is a product provided by us for the credit grantor
> to enter THEIR criteria for granting credit. With all due respect you are
> incorrect in saying "The lender is not in control of your Beacon or your
> criteria you use to calculate your Beacon." the lender in fact is in FULL
> Control of Beacon.

Greg's response:

Well, shut my mouth. FULL control? You mean all this time, I thought... whoa. Now, I'm really lost.

With all due respect, AND I TRULY MEAN THAT, I could have sworn that mortgage lenders originating and underwriting conventional mortgages just used the Beacon score they got from you-- with no changes.

Here's where those guys, Fair Isaac, talk about the "broad based risk scores" used for "mortgage credit access":

http://www.fairisaac.com/html/mortgage_lending.html

http://www.fairisaac.com/html/mortgage_loans.html

And here's Freddie Mac again:

http://www.freddiemac.com/function/fm-homby/creditsc.htm

Hokey smokes! I thought the national conventional loan lending system treated everybody on the same scale when it came to credit--the FICO score! The FICO would take away all that crazy, inconsistent human bias found in those wacky, zany, madcap, full-of-shennanigans and Tom-foolery (Tom! Get it?) underwriters, and unfair, unequal treatment.

Bye-gosharoonie, its back to the good old days! You're saying "the lender in fact is in FULL Control of Beacon." I DID NOT KNOW THAT! I DID NOT KNOW THAT! Waaaaaaaaaa-HOOOOOOOOOO! Thanks!

customer.care@equifax.com wrote:
>
> In a situation where a lending has a huge number credit applications to

Greg's response:

Huh? ...where a LENDING...?

> review the cannot or may not want to process each one separately by hand.
> So the using a scoring system such as Beacon to automate the process that
> producing a number or "score" based on the criteria of that credit grantor
> and the type of transaction requested. The Credit reporting agency only
> REPORTS the credit and does not tell the lender how or whether they should
> transact business. Some companies state they need X number of accounts or
> they will not accept ANY late payment histories. This is what I was
> explaining in my previous E-mail. We have no access to each companies

Greg's response:

Ya, see. That's the problem with those spell-checkers: they don't do too well on the fine points like "companies(')". Hey, wait a minute. One of your customer service people didn't type this did they? I mean, they don't do data entry on credit reports do they? You know 'puters: one letter out of place and BAM! Your credit is somebody else's! Or worse--SOMEBODY ELSE'S is YOURS!

Good thing we have that system (read: sweet deal for you) set up to check our own credit reports for the creditors' errors (I'm sure YOU guys never make a mistake).

http://www.equifax.com/consumer/faqs/credit/faqtxt_f.html

Yeah, buddy! Just 8 Mister Washingtons from every consumer in the country to check for mistakes in the system you set up with the lenders. 8 times a couple hundred million is, ah... ZOUNDS! Quality control done by the consumer! By, gum, ingenious!

> criteria therefore we cannot tell you how to increase you score.
>
> Since the criteria is in fact decided and entered into beacon by the lender
> or credit grantor they are the only ones who are going to know how many
> accounts are needed or why THEY are making THEIR decisions.

Greg's response:

Doggonnit! It's those #$@%& lenders again! You stated, "Since the criteria is in fact decided and entered into beacon by the lender or credit grantor they are the only ones who are going to know how many accounts are needed or why THEY are making THEIR decisions."

All this time, I thought... geez Louise! I gotta talk with the lenders! Yeah! I'll ask them the criteria they enter into the Beacon! Aw right! Now we're getting somewhere!

>
> You [Greg] Wrote:
> >You said you are unable to advise me on what to do to increase your
> >Beacon score about my credit. If that is the case, then the reason
> >codes are useless to the consumer or any advisor to the consumer.

customer.care@equifax.com wrote:
>
> Sir the reason codes are what are needed to increase your beacon score with
> that company.
>
> For example. I apply for a credit card and they state as on of the reasons
> for denial that "Debt ratio to high" or "Current accounts at or above
> credit limits". While applications for credit cards do show consumers a
> "score" one is often generated. So if I still want to do business with
> that company in order to increase my score I might pay down some accounts
> or close some accounts, but to find out how much debt I would need to pay
> off or how much I would need to decrease my debt to income ratio I would
> need to contact the company I applied with and ask what the Debt to income
> ratios are or should I be at most 90% of my credit limits, or How many
> other accounts I would need to open to show I am skilled with my finances.
> Each company has their own criteria.
>
> So changes that increase you score with one company my lower your score
> with another.

Greg's response:

Uh-oh. Wait a minute. The Beacon knows debt ratios (debts divided by income; you know income?)? GET OUT!

SIR, you're talking about credit cards and (by the way, call me Greg) I'm just talking about conventional mortgage loans! See, I figured if I narrowed down the scope of my question to the Nth degree, you'd be able to answer it! At least give it the old try, old boy. OH, MAN. SURPRISE! STILL DIDN'T WORK!

I could have sworn that a Beacon, was a Beacon, was a Beacon; that Equifax and Fair, Isaac came up with that deal (***BREAK TIME*** Here's a public service announcement: the FED, of course has something to do with this stuff--LOOK AT THIS>>>>: "2. This sentence in the second bullet ("You can find out what is in your file") was based on a clause specifically added to Section 609(a)(1). One comment from major creditors stated that the reference should be expanded to refer to "any information concerning" such scores "or other predictors." A more frequent view, offered by a major CRA, a trade association, and a federal regulatory agency stated that the section was unnecessary and would confuse rather than educate consumers."

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/2-fedreg.htm#N_2_

GREG SAYS: PLEASE DON'T CONFUSE ME OR THROW ME IN THAT BRIAR PATCH!

http://www.bos.frb.org/public/commbank.htm

***BREAK TIME OVER***), and nobody outside those hallowed walls has access to change it. Heck how could they? After all, it is PROPRIETARY. PROPRIETARY. One more time: PROPRIETARY! I LOVE that (25 cent) word. Zowie! What a regal legal zinger. Throw that baby into a conversation and watch the flowers wilt.

Maybe the wallflowers.

customer.care@equifax.com wrote:
>
> Review:
> http://www.equifax.com/consumer/faqs/credit/faqtxt_k.html
>
> You [Greg] Wrote:
> >I conclude not that you are unable to advise me, but that you are
> >unwilling.

customer.care@equifax.com wrote:
>
> Well I'm sorry that you feel that way. Truly. You are simply asking
> something of us that we cannot assist you with in the manner that you are
> requesting. I will state that all of us are in customer care are more than
> willing to assist and go above and beyond daily to assist in any way that
> we can. Unfortunately in regards to Beacon the ONLY assistance we can
> render, has been and you should contact you lender for specific ways to do
> business with them, including their scoring criteria.
>
> Thank you
>
Greg's response:

No, no, no! Thank YOU! I'll get in touch with a bunch of lenders, give them a copy of this, and ask them how they change the Beacon criteria!

Have a great Friday and a great weekend, Mr. Chapman! Happy Holidays! I've attached a holiday MIDI file for your listening enjoyment!

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Attachment
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:53:02 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: customer.care@equifax.com

Here's your holiday music!

You know, we should get you your own e-mail address for Christmas!

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:57:58 -0500
From: customer.care@equifax.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Greg,

Frankly I give up. I have been the one who has answered you questions. At no point did I state I was Thomas F. Chapman. Your last E-mail was so very full of frustration, cynicism and unproductive spite that I do sympathise with you. Just like you sir if I new how to raise my own Beacon score I would be more than happy to do it.

Simply there is no easy answer to the question. "How do I raise my beacon score?" We don't have access to the criteria so no person at Equifax can tell you how to raise your Beacon score. It is really that simple. When I used to assist people on the phones I would get this question and then the answer was the same.

You see all of the people here at Equifax are consumers just like you. To go one step further, I am making plans to soon purchase a home much like you are. And while I will have some knowledge of the process, I will not know what my score is or how to improve it until I hear from my lender.

I apologise if my credit card example confused you or was seen as a red herring. It is the easiest example used to explain Beacon score. Income is not placed on a credit file but we will agree that it is asked for as part of most credit applications. (Credit to me Credit and any types of loans.)

We can also agree that any person can be turned down for credit for information obtained outside of the credit report. And based on any one lenders criteria, information not listed on the report, such as, employment history, amount of overtime worked, base income, or clateral used in the loan, may affect a "score" and is another reason we cannot tell you how to raise your score.

I know that we may be seen as the "bad guys" in credit transactions and you are not inclined to believe anything that I would say to you. I would like to ask two questions though. Have you asked the company that accessed your file how you can raise you score with them? And two, one person to another. If I had the easy answer that you are asking for don't you think I would give it to you and avoid this mutual frustration?

The answer to the second question is yes.

I would also like to thank you for the links you included in your e-mail.

I reviewed each one and found this one to be most helpful.

http://www.fairisaac.com/html/mortgage_lending.html

Fair, Isaac employs the industry?s most sophisticated analytic techniques in building custom application scoring models, giving lenders increased power to distinguish between applicants and make informed and fair decisions.

The above paragraph says exactly what I have been saying in my emails to you. Does "custom application scoring model" seem like the lenders can place thier own criteria?

It even goes as far to say "giving lenders increased power to distinguish between applicants and make informed and fair decisions." This seems to say that the Credit reporting Agencies do not make any credit dessions about granting or dening credit and therefore have no power over the scoring.

This whole situation could have been avoided by giving the form letter asking you to just contact your lender.

But I wanted to also answer all of your questions. Give examples of how scoring works. And ask you to contact you lender.

I would have been happy to answer any further questions that you returned to me. But instead I received a very nice grammer check and insults.

If you would like to have me call you to discuss this further I would still be happy to assist you. You can write back with a phone number where you could be reached. I will return your phone call if I get your email be 4pm EST today.

Thank you

Good Luck


Subject: Re: Attachment
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:09:26 -0500
From: customer.care@equifax.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Perhaps this response from fairisaac is better.

Q:How can I raise my score?

A: While you can improve your future score, it is unlikely that any single action you will take will have a large impact on your score immediately. That?s because your score reflects your credit patterns over time. With this in mind, there are things you can do now that will improve your score in the future. These include:

Pay your bills on time. Delinquent payments and collections can have a major negative impact on your score. As they get older and you pay all other obligations on time, the delinquent information will have less impact.

Pay down your balances. High outstanding debt can affect your score.

Apply for new credit sparingly. ?Shopping? for credit can have an adverse affect on your score.

But it?s important to remember that there is no single action that will raise everyone?s score. Each time a credit score is calculated, specific reasons are delivered to the lender along with the score. If you?ve been given your score, you can ask your lender for these reasons (also known as ?score factors?) that came back with your score. These factors represent the four major reasons, in order of importance, why your score was not higher. Anything that you can do to address these reasons (paying off outstanding accounts to address ?number of accounts with balances, for example) will most likely result in an improvement to your score.


Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 12:53:16 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: customer.care@equifax.com
CC: don.memberg@equifax.com
References: 1

Dear _________:

Aye, yi, yi, yi... you're not T.C.? Oh, man.

See, I've already been to your level. They didn't have the answer. I e-mailed Dennis Bowman, then his boss Pete Thayer, then his boss, Robert Cutrone, then his boss, that guy, William Gaster (Sr. V.P!), then his boss, John Rougeou. J.R. never wrote back! Bill G. said John was way up there on the chain of command, so I figured: Mr. Rougeou probably only answers to the top man! So that's when I wrote to Mr. Chapman. Thinking he didn't have the answer (when I got your response with no name; I thought you were him!), I e-mailed Mr. Rogers!

Egg on my face! Because you didn't give me your name!

Ding, ding, ding.

Review: the lending system! Conventional loan lenders CANNOT change the Beacon! You still don't get it? You asked above if I asked them how I can "raise your score with them?" T-H-E-Y ---- D-O-N-'T ---- H-A-V-E ---- C-O-N-T-R-O-L ---- O-F ---- T-H-E ---- B-E-A-C-O-N! Holy, algorithms, Batman!

The Beacon is not a "custom application scoring model." It is a "Broad Based Risk" model. Any schmoe lender can buy it. It's just one number on a credit report. One you came up with. And, OF COURSE Equifax has access to the criteria, don't be silly! If Equifax doesn't, who does? Equifax SELLS the score! You're making dough on it and you don't know how it works? You stated: "We don't have access to the criteria so no person at Equifax can tell you how to raise your Beacon score." Good gravy. This is out of hand.

>From Fair, Isaac: "Broad-based risk. Risk scores identify a consumer’s risk of delinquency, write-off and personal bankruptcy based on an analysis of his or her credit report. BEACON SM (Equifax), EMPIRICA® (Trans Union), EMPIRICA™ (ITC*), Experian/Fair, Isaac Model (Experian) *available in South Africa"

http://www.fairisaac.com/html/consumer__credit.html

See? The Beacon even has a trademark thingy next to it.

Equifax is responsible for the Beacon. But it is unwilling to release a simple thing as: the right number of revolving accounts-- yet it can say "too many" or "too few." Give it to your statisticians. They should be able to come up with something. If a report says too many, what would even be A RANGE of numbers representing the right number of accounts to close to avoid that being a reason code that my score is not higher? Like 1-5, 2-10, 7-12, 12-25, or 6-329.

> http://www.fairisaac.com/html/mortgage_lending.html
>
> Fair, Isaac employs the industry?s most sophisticated
> analytic techniques in building custom application
> scoring models, giving lenders increased power to
> distinguish between applicants and make informed and
> fair decisions.

Huzzah, huzzah. I'm genuflecting. Do you believe EVERYTHING you read? Show me the research. Good night-- I'm just trying to get the highest score; you'd think I was asking for military secrets!

Some lenders already use your Beacon score to decide even what rate of interest to charge! NOW we're cookin' with Crisco! So, now, we're not talking about whether a person is merely turned-down or not; it's Moolah, Baby. Scratch. Coin. Wampum. Bucks. Cashola!

Sympathise? Apologise? Clateral?

Mutual frustration? C'mon. You're projecting.

Please forward this to Mssrs. Chapman and Rogers. Oh, hey, I will return their e-mail if I get it before 4pm EST today. Or any time after that. Guys on that level need time to respond (as we have seen). You know, my first e-mail to you (Equifax) was in April?

And by all means, please DO send the form letter. Stick it in the e-mail.

What IS your name, anyway?

Happy Holidaaaaayyyyys! Happy Holidaaaaayyyyys! (Just singing along. Boy, that Perry Como!)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

PS - "... frustration, cynicism and unproductive spite that I do sympathise with you."

Harumph.

Can-it and lighten up. It's the season for goodwill toward men! Consumers, too!


Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:17:41 -0500
From: customer.care@equifax.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

I would have called you to discuss this but I did not see a phone number.

It's obvious that at this point you will not accept the answer from us.

Have you contacted the person/company who access your file about what needs to be done about the score?

You stated that you contact a number of people here at Equifax about this and did they tell you basically the same thing that I have told you?

This is step by step how scoring works.

A customer Credit grantor contacts a credit reporting agency about obtaining credit files and becoming a member with Equifax. (This is roughly the same steps for all reporting agents but I work for Equifax.)

Customer Care They are reviewed and if they become members they can chose how they would like to receive the credit reports from us.

If they chose a service such as Beacon they select their criteria for scoring. They decide how much weight is placed on each item or lack of items that are on each credit report. They may also wish to factor in other concerns such as income employment or address history. (Information that is not on the credit report but may factor into that companies decision making process.)

With that setup they now have a rough blueprint they can use to grant or deny credit.

Once you or any person applies for credit they request information from you and/or co-borrowers about information needed to process your request. This is how income and such factor in the scoring.

They then enter the information into their computers and request a copy of the credit file. We then return the credit file and then their computers and algorithms produce a score based on all of the information that has been provided.

Each company also has a range of acceptable scores and yes some scores may be "better" than others.

The credit grantor then decides two things.

Whether or not they wish to grant the credit and if yes

In what manner, maybe instead of a gold card they'll grant a classic, perhaps they feel the risk is high so they decide to add an interest point. (Second example in the case of most mortgages.)

The point is that each credit grantor decides the criteria that make the score and once they receive a score they then decide in what manner to do business.

In all cases Beacon generates 3-4 reasons in order of importance on why the score was not higher. (3-4 reason are generated in EVERY case why the score was not higher, in most cases of full acceptance the credit grantor does not provide the reasons and the consumer does not ask for them.)

At this point the consumer can make a choice to find another company to do business with or make an attempt to increase the chances of doing business with the company that they applied with. You have chosen the latter so that's where we'll focus.

If the reason was.

Not enough trade lines on file
Too many accounts over the credit limit
Time of employment to short
Income not sufficient for requested loan

These may not apply to you but for example.

The reason codes are the reasons that the score with this credit grantor, for this type of transaction, based on the credit file, and the information supplied was not higher.

If you want to raise your score with this credit grantor you would need to rectify the reason codes given.

In the above case that could mean opening some accounts, or making sure that all of the accounts you have open or have closed in the last seven years are reporting on the credit file.

Make payments or the current accounts to lower the amounts owed.

Make clear to lender why or the circumstances of a job change. Was it a move inside the company or outside the company within the same industry.

Add a co-borrower or ensure all of you outside income has been reported.

This is the area in which we disagree. But allow me a moment outside the box.

The credit process is a three sided triangle, Consumer, Credit reporting agency, Credit grantor.

The consumer has two "jobs" to apply for credit as s/he sees fit, and to check periodically to see if information on the credit file is correct. It sounds as if you have indeed done your share or even more than you share in that regard.

The credit reporting agency, accepts information from credit grantors in regards to credit, provides copies of the file to the consumer and if in dispute with it's contents provides a vehicle to dispute with the credit grantor, and provide copies to credit grantors when you apply for credit with them.

Credit grantors, report accurate information to the credit reports and once they receive the credit reports make decisions about whether or not they want to do business and in what manner.

In regards to changing a score. Which of the above three entities has the most information about how your score was generated?

You have the reasons or should have the reasons in plain text as to why your score was not higher, and it seems you have a copy of your Equifax credit report.

We have access (not in this office but in the above case) to the credit report.

The Grantor has access to all of the information you provided, the credit report, their ways and reasons for doing business and (yes they may not disclose this to you) the criteria they set in place for Beacon when they signed up with us and any changes they have made since.

But let's even ignore the criteria and Beacon for a moment. They have access to the credit report and any documents you provided them, would you agree?

You may also agree that in most cases if one can prove a high enough income or access to enough funds they could make purchases on credit without having a credit report accessed Would you agree?

In this case the company may still be using a scoring model to make decisions but "Hey he's got a 30% down payment that's good enough for us." In this case would you contact Equifax about why they charged 8% interest instead of 7.5% of course not you would contact the company about why they charged the higher rate and they would give you some reasons. Agreed?

So In every case once the credit has been accessed and the information is provided to the grantor from you the credit grantor is the single most information rich entity in the credit triangle and they of course decide how much risk they are willing to take based on the policies they have established

Now in your case, What if the answer is not enough income? We could not give that answer because we do not know how much you make. In most cases the credit grantor does. What if the answer is not enough accounts on file? Well it is true we know how many accounts are on file but we do not know how many constitute enough accounts to show "responsibility" to the company you applied with. The credit grantor "should know" their policies for granting credit, period. Equifax does not know each companies policies.

Then take it one step further opening more 2 more accounts to raise your score with a company that want 4-7 account when you have 3 would be good. But the next company may only want 2-4. So you would raise your score with one company and lower it with another. To explain think of this.

Under your current instance Beacon is the same for every company for every transaction. And therefore we should be able to tell you how to increase your score.

Which would mean the criteria for getting a $200,000 home is the same as getting a secured $300 credit card.

Can we agree this is not true?

So you should agree that companies can make changes to the criteria of beacon based on the type of transaction?

Within the realm of mortgage. Your instance is Beacon is the same for all companies in the same industry. And therefore we should be able to tell you how to raise your score.

Which would mean that if the same person went to a large company such as CitiBank for that $200,000 and then went next door to Jay's Mortgage House, (Jay is my name by the way) they would get the same deal from both companies right? (We are under the assumption that Beacon is the same across the board so two companies should get the same exact score and provide the same financing, right?)

We both know that is not correct. The person may have a thirty day late, or a charge off, items that may make Citibank so "no way" . It may have been their experience that they do not wish to accept that type of risk. Also when they entered the criteria for Beacon they might place a heavy weight on current status and late payment, and place extra focus on these type of items. Causing the score generated by Beacon for Citibank based on their criteria to be lower or below what they say is acceptable to them.

But at Jay's Mortgage House we are more understanding and willing to take more risk. We access the file but our criteria might say, well, 1 charge off is OK and 3 thirty day lates are OK as long as they are 2 years old. We are nice but we also want to make more money for accepting the "higher risk". Our interest rates may be higher than the "primary lenders." So the score number may be higher than that generated by Citibank and based on the score generated by us based on our criteria we can provide X financing.

In the above situations I think you would agree that if you wanted to raise your score with these credit grantors you would contact the credit grantors. The reasons provided may be the same.

Accounts charged off as bad debt
Accounts paid 30 days or more late
Insufficient income
Employment history.

Each of the above companies are going to have their own requirement to feel comfortable to do business with this person. Maybe for one paying off the charged off accounts would be enough to raise the score, maybe more income is the only way, perhaps a co-signer. Those companies should know the process they use to do business would you agree?

So if the Scoring was the same for all companies all companies would provide the same loans and the same rate. There would be no reasons for people to go to higher interest rate loans would there?

Instead there are Primary lenders and lenders that accept persons in other situations such as little credit or high debt or charge offs or whatever.

Do you think it is just as easy to get a loan from a large company charging 6.9% or a medium company charging 13% for a loan with the same terms same property. Of course they 6.9% company is going to have a much tighter criteria than the 13% company.

So can we agree that it stands to reason that each company sets their own criteria for Beacon?

(The above is for example we don't know the criteria for Citibank and I don't have a mortgage house.)

You seem like a business owner. If you where making a loan to a person you knew really well would you access the report? And if you did and it can back with a "low" score (based on criteria that you gave to Beacon when you signed up for it) Would you deny your friend? Maybe. Would you charge him a higher interest rate? Maybe. Would you ignore the report and the score and accept the person's handshake as bond? Maybe. Would you be able to explain to your friend why you could not grant his loan? I hope so because that is a decision you are making.

You Greg, are giving us too much credit in regards to the power we have over transactions. Once you dispute your report and agree it is correct, apply for credit, we then do not tell the companies what to do with that application. As a business owner would you let any credit reporting agency tell you with a doubt how to run your business, or which loans to make? Of course not!

We can help you dispute incorrect information on your Equifax credit file. Your Beacon score is not on your Equifax credit file. We do not have all of the information needed to generate a Beacon score therefore does it stand to reason we cannot advise on how to raise it? You may investigate the reasons given by the company as to why your score was not higher or you may chose a different lender.

The short answer to:

How can I increase my Beacon score? (or ANY score for that matter.)

is:

Follow the reason given or ask your lender.

Thank you

The Form letter version is:

Over time a consumer can improve the information in his or her credit report by paying credit obligations on time and using credit wisely. As derogatory data in the credit report gets older, it affects the score less. A missed payment from four years ago will not count as much as a missed payment from six months ago.

Credit items on the report are updated often. New items can be added to the file, such as new inquiries and new trades. Some items status changes, such as when an account is closed or paid off. If any of these actions change the file then the score is likely to change. Even if no change is made to the file, the fact that the information on the file is aging, will affect the credit score.

Thank you.


Subject: Credit score
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:35:37 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net

Mr. Klein:

Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?

John L. Clendenin
Chairman
BellSouth Corporation
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:16:37 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
References: 1

Mr. Klein:

I sent the message below over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:55:24 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
References: 1 , 2

Mr. Klein:

I sent the message below two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:53:57 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re[2]: Credit score
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 09:30:19 -0800
From: "TIM KLEIN"
To: (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Greg:

I forwarded your message to Equifax because John Clendenin retired from BellSouth last year, is no longer on our board of directors and no longer maintains an office here.

Any response, therefore, should be coming from Equifax.

--Tim

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:42:15 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: TIM KLEIN
References: 1

Please give me his forwarding address.

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 01:35:41 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: TIM KLEIN
References: 1 , 2

Please give me Mr. Clendenin's forwarding address.

Please acknowledge receiving this email.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re[2]: Credit score
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 09:23:22 -0500
From: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
To: (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Greg:

I forwarded your request to:
John L. Clendenin
Board of Directors
Equifax Corp.
1600 Peachtree St., NW
Atlanta, GA 30302

Please let me know if you need anything else.

--Tim

*************************

Subject: Re[2]: Credit score
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 09:23:22 -0500
From: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
To: (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Greg:

I forwarded your request to:
John L. Clendenin
Board of Directors
Equifax Corp.
1600 Peachtree St., NW
Atlanta, GA 30302

Please let me know if you need anything else.

--Tim

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:50:47 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Arlene.Murphy@ced.org

Please forward this to Mr. Clendenin.

John L. Clendenin
Committee for Economic Development Board of Trustees member
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract toavoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: RE: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 9:32:38 -0500
From: arlene.murphy@ced.org
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Sorry, Mr. Clendenin doesn't keep an office here and he's retired from BellSouth. Sorry I can't forward this to him.


Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:20:21 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: consumer-affairs@homedepot.com

Will you please give this message to board member John L. Clendenin?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:53:57 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

Greg Fisher wrote:

> Mr. Klein:
>
> I sent the message below two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to
> Mr.
> Clendenin?
>
> Greg Fisher wrote:
>
> > Mr. Klein:
> >
> > I sent the message below over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr.
> > Clendenin?
> >
> > Greg Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > Mr. Klein:
> > >
> > > Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?
> > >
> > > John L. Clendenin
> > > Chairman
> > > BellSouth Corporation
> > > Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982
> > >
> > > To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
> > > conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
> > > what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?
> > >
> > > Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
> > >
> > > avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
> > > If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Greg Fisher
> > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> >
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:58:50 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: consumer-affairs@homedepot.com
References: 1

I sent the message below over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

[previous email inserted here]

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:39:27 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@kroger.com

Please forward this to Mr. Clendenin.

John L. Clendenin
Kroger Board of Directors member
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract toavoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:34:52 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@nationalservice.com

John L. Clendenin
Chairman of the Executive Resource and Compensation Committee
Board of Directors
National Service Industries

Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:20:21 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: consumer-affairs@homedepot.com

Will you please give this message to board member John L. Clendenin?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:53:57 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago.

Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

Greg Fisher wrote:

> Mr. Klein:
>
> I sent the message below two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you
forward it to Mr. Clendenin?
>
> Greg Fisher wrote:
>
> > Mr. Klein:
> >
> > I sent the message below over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr.
> > Clendenin?
> >
> > Greg Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > Mr. Klein:
> > >
> > > Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?
> > >
> > > John L. Clendenin
> > > Chairman
> > > BellSouth Corporation
> > > Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982
> > >
> > > To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
> > > conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
> > > what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?
> > >
> > > Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
> > > avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
> > > If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Greg Fisher
> > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> >
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:49:18 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@nationalservice.com
References: 1

I sent you the message below a week ago. Please respond.

[previous email inserted here]

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 08:29:05 -0400
From: Elizabeth Martin
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
References: 1

Mr. Fisher,

I forwarded the e-mail that you sent me last week to Ken Murphy, our corporate secretary. He works with our board members. The printed message was given to him on the day that it was received last week. I have left him a voice mail inquiring about the status of that message. If you would like to reach him, his number is 404/853-1441. If I can be of additional assistance, my number is 404/853-1201. Thank you for your interest in NSI.

Sincerely,

Elizabeth Martin
Investor Relations Administrator

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:19:44 -0400
From: Elizabeth Martin
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
References: 1

Dear Mr. Fisher,

We've reviewed the information that you sent. It does not pertain to our business, and we will not be forwarding the information to Mr. Clendenin. If you have any questions, please contact me at 404/853-1201.

Sincerely,

Elizabeth Martin

Investor Relations Administrator


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 18:01:13 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: info@usa.redcross.org

Will you please forward this message to Board of Governors member John L. Clendenin?

Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:20:21 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: consumer-affairs@homedepot.com

Will you please give this message to board member John L. Clendenin?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:53:57 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago.

Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

Greg Fisher wrote:

> Mr. Klein:
>
> I sent the message below two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to
> Mr. Clendenin?
>
> Greg Fisher wrote:
>
> > Mr. Klein:
> >
> > I sent the message below over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr.
> > Clendenin?
> >
> > Greg Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > Mr. Klein:
> > >
> > > Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?
> > >
> > > John L. Clendenin
> > > Chairman
> > > BellSouth Corporation
> > > Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982
> > >
> > > To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
> > > conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
> > > what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?
> > >
> > > Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
> > >
> > > avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
> > > If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Greg Fisher
> > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> >
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:08:37 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: info@usa.redcross.org
References: 1

I wrote to you over a week ago. Did you forward the message below to Mr. Clendenin?

John L. Clendenin
Red Cross Board of Governors
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract toavoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring -Reply
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:03:11 -0400
From: American Red Cross
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Dear Mr. Fisher, we forwarded your message to the Board of Governors office.

Thank you


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 00:32:28 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: pr@nabisco.com

Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?

John L. Clendenin
RJR Nabisco Board Member
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract toavoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: FW: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:01:02 -0400
From: Nabisco WWW Public Relations
To: "\"'(gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)'\" <"(gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Thank you for contacting Nabisco. This email service is part of Nabisco, Inc. (NYSE: NA), which is a subsidiary of RJR Nabisco , Inc. (NYSE: RN). Any requests for information about our parent company must be sent directly to RJR Nabisco, Inc, which maintains an Internet site at http://www.rjrnabisco.com, or you can reach them at:

RJR Nabisco, Inc.
1301 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10019
(212) 258-5600

We apologize for any inconvenience.

*************************

Subject: copy of "email" sent through CGI form
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 06:10:18 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
References: 1

Message sent on the form on the page to "Public Relations"

"http://www.rjrnabisco.com/visitors/comment_new.cfm?companyid=RN&HEADER=1":

*****

Subject: Contacting a board member
First Name: Greg
Last Name: Fisher
Email Address: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

What is the email address at which I can contact John Clendenin?

*****

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: copy of "email" sent through CGI form
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 06:06:44 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Message sent on the form on the page

"http://www.rjrnabisco.com/visitors/comment_new.cfm?companyid=RN&HEADER=1":

*****

Subject: Contacting a board member
First Name: Greg
Last Name: Fisher
Email Address: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
What is the email address at which I can contact John Clendenin?

*****

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit score
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:52:15 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Joel Reuter

Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?

John L. Clendenin
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:08:46 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: john_clendenin@southwire.com

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Subject: Credit score
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:52:15 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Joel Reuter

Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?
John L. Clendenin
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:12:01 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Joel Reuter
References: 1

I sent you the message below to forward to Mr. Clendenin two weeks ago. Did he receive it?

I forwarded the message below to Mr. Clendenin at john_clendenin@southwire.com. Did he receive it?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:14:58 -0400
From: JOEL REUTER
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. McClendenin does not have a Southwire address/e-mail. I'm not allowed to give out his personal contact information. I passed your message along to the appropriate parties to forward it to him.

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:40:06 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: JOEL REUTER
References: 1

Who do you mean by "appropriate parties?"

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score -Reply -Reply
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 07:18:17 -0400
From: JOEL REUTER
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

People (internally) who interact with Mr. Clendenin.


Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:20:21 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: consumer-affairs@homedepot.com

Will you please give this message to board member John L. Clendenin?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:53:57 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

Greg Fisher wrote:

> Mr. Klein:
>
> I sent the message below two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to
> Mr. Clendenin?
>
> Greg Fisher wrote:
>
> > Mr. Klein:
> >
> > I sent the message below over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr.
> > Clendenin?
> >
> > Greg Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > Mr. Klein:
> > >
> > > Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?
> > >
> > > John L. Clendenin
> > > Chairman
> > > BellSouth Corporation
> > > Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982
> > >
> > > To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
> > > conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
> > > what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?
> > >
> > > Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
> > > avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
> > > If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Greg Fisher
> > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> >
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:20:21 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: consumer-affairs@homedepot.com

Will you please give this message to board member John L. Clendenin?

[previous email inserted here]

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:58:19 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: careers.recruit@wachovia.com

Please forward this message to board member John L. Clendenin.

[previous email inserted here]

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 18:01:13 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: info@usa.redcross.org

Will you please forward this message to Board of Governors member John L. Clendenin?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:34:52 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@nationalservice.com

John L. Clendenin
Chairman of the Executive Resource and Compensation Committee
Board of Directors
National Service Industries

Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:20:21 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: consumer-affairs@homedepot.com

Will you please give this message to board member John L. Clendenin?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:45:20 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: betty.turner@springs.com

Please forward this to Mr. Clendenin.

John L. Clendenin
Springs Industries Board of Directors member
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract toavoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:15:18 -0400
From: "Betty Turner (SPRINGS)"
To: (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Mr. Fisher:

I believe that your inquiry should be directed to Equifax. Thank you.
Betty Turner

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:06:48 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Betty Turner (SPRINGS)"
References: 1

I have already directed my inquiry to Equifax. I diligently, painstakingly, started at the bottom of their chain of command and followed it to the top, skipping no one.

When I attempted to contact another board member directly through Equifax, someone other than the board member answered the question. Nor did the board member refuse, or tell me he was sending me to someone else who could be of better assistance. I have no verification that the board member ever even read the message.

So, I am attempting to contact another board member through other channels. You are not alone in your refusal to simply pass along a short message. Mr. Clendenin is well protected; others at other companies on whose boards he sits have done the same.

The question is legitimate; you should care about it, too--your credit score is a major factor in the decision to give you a home loan. Do you know how many bank revolving accounts you should have? Did you know you could pay all your bills on time, and still be given a lower score than others because you have too few, or too many bank revolving accounts?

It's really simple-- you just put this in the mail to him, or send it through your in-house distribution so he gets it at the next board meeting, or the next time he checks in. You're telling me you won't do that? You're trashing his mail without giving him the chance to decide for himself if it is important? YOU are deciding for him?

You have not actually refused to forward the message to the intended recipient, so please answer this question: Will you give it to Mr. Clendenin, or will you sit on it?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:58:19 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: careers.recruit@wachovia.com

Please forward this message to board member John L. Clendenin.

Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:20:21 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: consumer-affairs@homedepot.com

Will you please give this message to board member John L. Clendenin?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:53:57 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: klein.tim@bsc.bellsouth.net
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago.

Did you forward it to Mr. Clendenin?

Greg Fisher wrote:

> Mr. Klein:
>
> I sent the message below two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to
> Mr. Clendenin?
>
> Greg Fisher wrote:
>
> > Mr. Klein:
> >
> > I sent the message below over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr.
> > Clendenin?
> >
> > Greg Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > Mr. Klein:
> > >
> > > Would you forward this message to Mr. Clendenin, please?
> > >
> > > John L. Clendenin
> > > Chairman
> > > BellSouth Corporation
> > > Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982
> > >
> > > To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
> > > conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
> > > what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?
> > >
> > > Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
> > >
> > > avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
> > > If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Greg Fisher
> > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> >
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:14:52 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: careers.recruit@wachovia.com
References: 1

I wrote to you over a week ago. Did you forward the message below to Mr. Clendenin?

John L. Clendenin
Wachovia Bank Board of Directors member
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1982

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:40:52 -0400
From: patti.tuten@wachovia.com
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

You have submitted this email to our database which houses resumes. Please correspond directly with the individual you seek to contact. We apologize for any inconveniences.

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:18:22 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: patti.tuten@wachovia.com
References: 1

OK. Do you have Mr. Clendenin's email address?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:22:31 -0400
From: patti.tuten@wachovia.com
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

I apoligize but we do not have this information available. I would recommend that you contact Mr. Clendenin directly via telephone.

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:32:27 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: patti.tuten@wachovia.com
References: 1

Mr. Clendenin is well isolated.

When I tried to contact another Equifax Board member through Equifax, the response was not from the member, but from a person at the address "customer.care@equifax.com." They confirmed they were not the board member.

You could easily forward this to your chairman's office, your supervisor (so they could make the decision) or some other person who could print it and give it to Mr. Clendenin. Or try this novel approach: you could print it, and put it in your internal distribution--you know, those brown envelopes with the red strings you guys at banks have? Gosh, if you gave this to your boss, you don't think they'd, like, for Pete's sake, yell at you do you?

You are not alone in your refusal to simply pass along a short message; others at other companies on whose boards Mr. Clendenin sits (and, boy, are there are a lot!) have also refused. Whether I contact him by electronic mail, telephone, post, overnight delivery, fax, walkie-talkie, morse code, short-wave, Pony Express, ship-to-shore, smoke signal or carrier pigeon, the message is still the same; our dilemma is one of mere protocol.

Subsequent readers might think this is silly.

I will leave it in your hands, Patti--and will ask you one last yes or no question: will you forward it to Mr. Clendenin? You only have to type ONE word.

Thank you for your time and recommendation. Your were helpful on your level.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:47:41 -0400
From: patti.tuten@wachovia.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Fisher:

Please submit your mailing address as we will forward your request to our corporate office for a response to your inquiry.

Again, we apologize for any inconvenience.

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:03:09 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: patti.tuten@wachovia.com
References: 1

I won't give you my mailing address because it is irrelevant. Wachovia has email, Equifax has email, and I have email. I am not requesting a correspondence through the mail. Email is as legitimate a form of communication as any. Do not turn this into a discourse on business convention; it is about credit scoring.

Do you and Wachovia still refuse to forward the message I addressed to Mr. Clendenin, lo, those many days ago? You waited an entire week before making your last response. Tomorrow will be three weeks from the day I first requested you forward the original email. Mr. Clendenin is, indeed, well-detached. In your case, he is practically isolated from the outside world. An odd state given that most boards of directors members are, at least, responsible for input of common sense based on their broad-based knowledge of the real world. Poor Mr. Clendenin will have a skewed vision of the real world if he doesn't have all the facts, including that this message was sent to him.

First, today, please forward all the messages I have sent to you, including this one, to him and let Mr. Clendenin determine his own response.

Second, please tell me the name and position of the person who had the idea to request my address. More intrigue.

Time marches on, Patti. If this is of major concern to Mr. Clendenin, he may be disappointed that it has taken you and Wachovia this long to give him the message. Do not try to determine for Mr. Clendenin the urgency of the message. Allow him to make that judgment.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Re: Undeliverable: Credit score
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:47:24 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: System Administrator
References: 1

System Administrator:

Please forward this to Mr. Dahlberg.

Thank you.

System Administrator wrote:

> Your message
>
> To: web@scsnet.com
> Subject: Credit score
> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:26:55 -0600
>
> did not reach the following recipient(s):
>
> web@scsnet.com on Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:00:45 -0600
> Unable to deliver the message due to a communications failure
> MSEXCH:IMS:SOUTHERN:USA:GAXGPEX03 0 (000C05A6) Unknown Recipient
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Credit score
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:26:55 -0600
> From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
> To: web@scsnet.com
>
> A.W. Dahlberg
> Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer
> The Southern Company
> Equifax Board of Directors member since 1992
>
> To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
> conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
> what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?
>
> Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
> avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
> If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Undeliverable: Credit score
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:41:26 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: System Administrator
References: 1 , 2

Dear System Administrator:

Did this message reach Mr. Dahlberg?

I wrote to web@scsnet, the address from your web site, a week ago, but my mail was returned as shown below.

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Undeliverable: Credit score
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:19:56 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: System Administrator
References: 1 , 2 , 3

System Administrator:

I sent you the message below over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Dahlberg?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Undeliverable: Credit score
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:59:40 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: System Administrator
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

System Administrator:

I sent you the message below two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Dahlberg?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Undeliverable: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:55:02 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: System Administrator
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5

I sent the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a weeks ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Dahlberg?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Undeliverable: Credit score
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:55:16 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: System Administrator
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6

I sent the message below four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Dahlberg?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Undeliverable: Credit score
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 02:20:56 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: System Administrator
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7

I sent the message below five weeks ago, four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Dahlberg?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: [Fwd: Undeliverable: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:05:13 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: web@southernco.com

I sent the message below six weeks ago, five weeks ago, four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did Mr. Dahlberg receive it?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: RE: [Fwd: Undeliverable: Credit score]
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:30:19 -0500
From: "Heerman, William C."
To: "'Greg Fisher'" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Mr. Fisher:

Your question appears to be best answered by Equifax personnel. This e-mail address is for questions regarding Southern Company operations. Equifax does have a web site at http://www.equifax.com/navbar/docs/contacts.html .

*************************

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Undeliverable: Credit score]
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:48:16 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Heerman, William C."
References: 1

Thank you for your opinion.

I will repeat my question.

Did you forward the message to Mr. Dahlberg?

*************************

Subject: RE: [Fwd: Undeliverable: Credit score]
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:51:05 -0500
From: "Heerman, William C."
To: "'Greg Fisher'" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

No. Mr. Dahlberg cannot be reached this way.

*************************

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Undeliverable: Credit score]
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:49:19 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Heerman, William C."
References: 1

I see.

So, how can he be reached, then?

By the way, dropping likening your company to an 900-pound gorilla was wise. Mr. Dahlberg in a spaceman suit is much better.


Subject: Credit score
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:20:12 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: tdunsford@sgratl.com

Ms. Dunsford:

Would you forward this message to Mr. Forrestal, please?

Robert P. Forrestal
Partner
Smith, Gambrell & Russell
Retired President and Chief Executive Officer
Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta,
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1996

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:21:04 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: tdunsford@sgratl.com
References: 1

Ms. Dunsford:

I sent this message to you over a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Forrestal?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:01:12 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: tdunsford@sgratl.com
References: 1 , 2

Ms. Dunsford:

I sent this message to you two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Forrestal?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:56:49 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: tdunsford@sgratl.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Forrestal?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:56:21 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: tdunsford@sgratl.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

I sent the message below four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Forrestal?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 02:21:56 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: tdunsford@sgratl.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5

I sent the message below five weeks ago, four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Forrestal?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:09:00 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: tdunsford@sgratl.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6

I sent the message below six weeks ago, five weeks ago, four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Forrestal?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:16:57 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: rforrestal@sgratl.com

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

[forwarded message below]

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:09:00 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: tdunsford@sgratl.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6

I sent the message below six weeks ago, five weeks ago, four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Forrestal?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:37:07 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: montanaro_nina@promina.org

Ms. Montanaro:

Would you forward this message to Mr. Forrestal, please?

Robert P. Forrestal
Piedmont Hospital Foundation Board of Directors member
Partner
Smith, Gambrell & Russell
Retired President and Chief Executive Officer
Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta,
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1996

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: [Fwd: Mail System Error - Returned Mail]
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:38:52 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Mail Administrator

Please forward this message to Mr. Forrestal.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring -Reply
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:12:42 -0400
From: Mark Wilkison
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com
CC: Montanaro_Nina@promina.org

Mr. Fisher:

We are in receipt of your e-mail, and regret to inform you that it is our policy not to forward material such as this. Thank you for your inquiry.

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring -Reply
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:22:39 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Mark Wilkison
CC: Montanaro_Nina@promina.org
References: 1

What is your position?


Subject: Credit score
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:58:59 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: SunTrust

L. Phillip Humann
President
SunTrust Banks, Inc.
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1992

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Beacon Score
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:21:29 -0500
From: SunTrust
To: "'gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com'" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Dear Mr. Fisher,
Thank you for visiting the SunTrust website. In order to be able to assist you with these questions, I need to direct you to the SunTrust bank location closest to you. If you will provide us with your address, I will be happy to direct the appropriate loan officer to you. If you would prefer, you may contact them directly by calling 1-800-330-4MTG. They will be able to provide you with a detailed explanation of the Beacon score and where your credit score is. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Sincerely,
Deborah Paris
SunTrust Mortgage, Inc.

*************************

Subject: Re: Beacon Score
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 00:54:57 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: SunTrust
References: 1

Ms. Paris:

My message was not a request to talk with a loan officer as I am not requesting a loan from SunTrust. It was a note to an Equifax board of directors member. You see, it is an Equifax matter, not a SunTrust matter.

I would have contacted him at his home, but did not have his address.

I will attach the message again. Here it is:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Mortgage
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:25:53 -0500
From: SunTrust
To: "'gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com'" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Dear Mr. Fisher,
Thank you for clarifying my error. Somehow, I had not received the beginning of your original message. However, you latest message will be forwarded to Mr. Phillip Humann. Again, thank you for contacting SunTrust. If you have any other questions, please contact us.
Sincerely,
Deborah Paris
SunTrust Mortgage, Inc.

*************************

Subject: Re: Mortgage
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:08:30 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: SunTrust
References: 1

Ms. Paris:

Over a week ago, I received your message that you would forward my message to Mr. Humann. He did not respond. Did he receive the message?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: SunTrust Mortgage
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:28:05 -0400
From: SunTrust
To: "'gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com'" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Dear Mr. Fisher
Thank you for being so patient while we try to assist you. Once I have been able to reach someone in Mr. Humman's office I will forward that information to you. In the meantime if you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to contact us.
Sincerely,
Yolanda E. Moore
SunTrust Mortgage, Inc.

*************************

Subject: SunTrust
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:43:30 -0400
From: SunTrust
To: "'gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com'" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)

Dear Mr. Fisher
Please contact Ms. Joni Martin at Equifax. Her telephone number is 404-885-8412. Again thank you for being so patient.
Sincerely,
Yolanda E. Moore
SunTrust Mortgage, Inc.

*************************

Subject: Re: SunTrust
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:45:06 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: SunTrust
References: 1

Ms. Moore:

I have already exhausted the Equifax chain of command, communicating with those at the lowest and the highest echelons of the company, including the president.

Since they have all refused to provide the information I requested, I am seeking it from the board, the next level in the command structure. I appreciate your trying to route me to the appropriate person, but the only appropriate person is L. Phillip Humann.

I wrote to him, in care of SunTrust, over two weeks ago. Did he get the email?

-- Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: general
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:52:09 -0400
From: SunTrust
To: "'gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com'" (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
Dear Mr. Fisher:

Please contact Ms. Joni Martin at Equifax. Her telephone number is 404-885-8412. Again thank you for being so patient.

Sincerely,
Yolanda E. Moore
Suntrust Mortgage, Inc.

*************************

Subject: Re: general
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:18:59 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: SunTrust
References: 1

That is odd.

In your email dated April 14, 1998 you said, "... if you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to contact us."

I felt free; I contacted you with another question, but you did not answer it in your last email. In fact, the email I received yesterday is exactly the same as the one I received Tuesday. Odd, indeed.

Here is the question again: Did L. Phillip Humann get the email?

Please respond with the answer to the question.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: general
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:57:41 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: SunTrust
References: 1 , 2

I sent you the message below a week ago. Please respond.

Greg Fisher wrote:

> That is odd.
>
> In your email dated April 14, 1998 you said, "... if you have any other
> questions or concerns please feel free to contact us."
>
> I felt free; I contacted you with another question, but you did not
> answer it in your last email. In fact, the email I received yesterday
> is exactly the same as the one I received Tuesday. Odd, indeed.
>
> Here is the question again: Did L. Phillip Humann get the email?
>
> Please respond with the answer to the question.
>
> SunTrust wrote:
>
> > Dear Mr. Fisher:
> >
> > Please contact Ms. Joni Martin at Equifax. Her telephone number is
> > 404-885-8412. Again thank you for being so patient.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Yolanda E. Moore
> > Suntrust Mortgage, Inc.
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: general
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 02:22:59 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: SunTrust
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent you the message below a two weeks ago and a week ago. Please respond.

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: general
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:23:38 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: SunTrust
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

I sent you the message below three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Please respond.

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:44:45 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: HR@havertys.com

L. Phillip Humann
President
SunTrust Banks, Inc.
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1992
Haverty Furniture Companies, Inc. Board of Directors member

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:44:45 +0000 From: postmaster@mail.havertys.com To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com Delivery Failure Report

Your Credit scoring document:
was not Rebecca Patton/Havertys
delivered to
:

because: User Rebecca Patton/Havertys not listed in public Name & Address Book

*************************

Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:11:38 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@havertys.com

L. Phillip Humann
President
SunTrust Banks, Inc.
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1992
Haverty Furniture Companies, Inc. Board of Directors member

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit score
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:57:09 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@genpt.com

Larry L. Prince
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Genuine Parts Company
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1988

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:51:18 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@genpt.com
References: 1

Webmaster:

I sent the message below a week ago. Did Mr. Prince receive it?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:14:38 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@genpt.com
References: 1 , 2

Webmaster:

I sent the message below three weeks ago and two weeks ago. Did Mr. Prince receive it?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:02:37 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@genpt.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below four weeks ago, three weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Prince?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 01:01:29 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@genpt.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

I sent the message below five weeks ago, four weeks ago, three weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Prince?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 02:24:05 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@genpt.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5

I sent the message below six weeks ago, five weeks ago, four weeks ago, three weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Prince?

[previous email inserted here]

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:56:17 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@genpt.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6

I sent the message below seven weeks ago, six weeks ago, five weeks ago, four weeks ago, three weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Mr. Prince?


Subject: Credit score
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:47:43 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: alee@ksumail.kennesaw.edu

Ms. Lee:

Would you forward this message to Dr. Seigel, please?

Dr. Betty L. Siegel
President
Kennesaw State University
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1987

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:22:37 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: alee@ksumail.kennesaw.edu
References: 1

Ms. Lee:

I sent the message below to you over a week ago. Did you forward it to Dr. Siegel?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:16:23 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: alee@ksumail.kennesaw.edu
References: 1 , 2
Ms. Lee:

I sent the message below to you two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Dr. Siegel?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:12:13 -0400
From: Annette Hannon Lee
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
References: 1 , 2

Mr. Fisher:
I forwarded your first message to President Siegel. I was away from my office last week.
Annette Lee

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:11:12 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: Annette Hannon Lee
References: 1 , 2 , 3

Thank you for your help.

Would you please give me President Siegel's or her office's email address?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:15:19 -0400 From: Annette Hannon Lee To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com) References: 1 , 2 , 3 Mr. Fisher:

President's office e-mail address: presoff@ksumail.kennesaw.edu President Siegel: bsiegel@ksumail.kennesaw.edu

Annette Lee

*************************

Subject: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:51:36 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Betty L. Siegel"

[previous email inserted here]

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 01:03:24 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Betty L. Siegel"
References: 1

I sent the message below to you a week ago.

Please respond.

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:54:56
From: "Dr. Betty Siegel"
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
References: 1

Mr. Fisher:

Unfortunately, I am not able to answer your question. I have, however, referred your query to the Corporate Secretary's office at Equifax, Inc. for their response. You should be hearing from them soon.

Dr. Betty L. Siegel

*************************

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Credit score]
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 01:01:03 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: "Dr. Betty Siegel"
References: 1 , 2

I have already been to the level of management at Equifax to which you have forwarded my question; I asked the same question of all levels under yours, skipping none, starting at the bottom. None provided the answer.

I presumed, mistakenly, that, at least, you (one of those at the top (the board)) would.

One of the possible reasons that a score used for conventional mortgage loan underwriting (the score is a nationwide standard required by FannieMae and FreddieMac) is not higher is that one could have "too few" or "too many" "bank revolving accounts" (meaning major credit cards (MasterCard, VISA, Discover), if I am not mistaken).

Your company claims several reasons for not providing me the number to open or close to limit that as a reason my score is not higher. By limiting my question to that specific reason, I gave them a chance to provide a specific answer, rather than the usual general answers such as "using credit wisely." There are other reasons that affect a score--reasons other than delinquency that any law-abiding, on-time bill-paying, non-delinquent person would have to know to get the highest possible score: balances on revolving accounts too high, too many inquiries to credit bureaus about one's credit, a "large" amount of non-mortgage debt.

Apparently, you are much wiser than I am, because I have no idea how many bank revolving accounts to have, but you can tell me I have too few or too many. And, by law, you don't have to tell me how many to have to make my score higher. Indeed, you don't even have to give me the score.

It's great for cocktail party discussions because nobody really knows the answer, but there are a lot of opinions. I thought you would find the answer if anyone could--or if you are, as I presume, responsible for the vision and direction of the company, you would redirect it or adjust its vision. Since there are only three companies providing that type of score (one of the other two being held by a non-American concern, the other privately), in large part, you are responsible for the direction of the industry. Your action can have a wide-ranging effect.

Rather than try to paraphrase those correspondences further, I'll attach them to this email.

Thank you for your time. Your were helpful on your level.

Please give me the name and email address of the stockholders' association leader.

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

att: full correspondence


Subject: Credit score
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:28:50 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@msm.edu

Dr. Louis W. Sullivan
President
Morehouse School of Medicine
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1995

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:24:00 -0500
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@msm.edu
References: 1

Webmaster:

I sent the message below to you over a week ago. Did you forward it to Dr. Sullivan?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:17:30 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@msm.edu
References: 1 , 2

Webmaster:

I sent the message below to you two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Dr. Sullivan?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:12:10 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@msm.edu
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I sent the message below to you three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Dr. Sullivan?

[previous email inserted here]

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 01:04:15 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: webmaster@msm.edu
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

I sent the message below to you four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Dr. Sullivan?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:37:03 -0400
From: WebMaster
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

yes

>>> Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com) 04/29 1:04 AM >>>
I sent the message below to you four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward it to Dr. Sullivan?

Greg Fisher wrote:

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 02:26:14 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: WebMaster
References: 1

Dr. Sullivan has not responded.

May I have his email address?

[previous email inserted here]

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit score
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 02:16:35 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: WebMaster
References: 1 , 2 , 3

I wrote to you two weeks ago and a week ago with this request.

Dr. Sullivan has not responded.

May I have his email address?

Greg Fisher wrote:

> I wrote to you a week ago with this request.
>
> Dr. Sullivan has not responded.
>
> May I have his email address?
>
> Greg Fisher wrote:
>
> > Dr. Sullivan has not responded.
> >
> > May I have his email address?
> >
> > WebMaster wrote:
> >
> > > yes
> > >
> > > >>> Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com) 04/29 1:04 AM >>>
> > > I sent the message below to you four weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a
> > > week ago. Did you forward it to Dr. Sullivan?
> > >
> > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > >
> > > > I sent the message below to you three weeks ago, two weeks ago and a week ago.
> > > > Did you forward it to Dr. Sullivan?
> > > >
> > > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Webmaster:
> > > > >
> > > > > I sent the message below to you two weeks ago and a week ago. Did you forward
> > > > > it to Dr. Sullivan?
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Webmaster:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I sent the message below to you over a week ago. Did you forward it to Dr.
> > > > > > Sullivan?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr. Louis W. Sullivan
> > > > > > > President
> > > > > > > Morehouse School of Medicine
> > > > > > > Equifax Board of Directors member since 1995
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for
> > > > > > > conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell
> > > > > > > what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher?
> > > > > > > If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > >
> > >
!
> > >
!
> >
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


Subject: Credit scoring
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:54:04 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: rwillis@mindspring.com

Mr. Willis:

Please forward this message to Mr. Riddle.

Thank you.

D. Raymond Riddle
Atlanta Gas Light Company Board of Directors member
Equifax Board of Directors member since 1989

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of bank revolving accounts"?

Can you, at least, tell me how I can tell how many to add or subtract to avoid the Beacon score giving that as a reason the score is not higher? If it says, "too few," do I add one? More than one?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

*************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:42:37 -0500
From: Ross Willis
Reply-To: RWiliis@Mindspring.com
Organization: AGL Resources
To: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
References: 1

Greg:

I'm unable to forward your message ...

Suggest you contact someone at National Service Industries, Inc.

Ross Willis


Subject:
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:09:32 -0400
From: joni.martin@equifax.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

As you requested, I am responding, via e-mail, to the questions you raised during our telephone conversation this morning.

1) Equifax does not have a "shareholder association."

2) We responded to your Beacon score question on October 24, 1997 and again attempted to follow-up with you in early November.

******************************

Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:40:25 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: joni.martin@equifax.com
References: 1

Ms. Martin:

Concerning the first point, I called the office of Marietta Edmunds Zakas, Corp. VP & Secretary, Equifax only asking for a contact to the shareholders. I was transferred to you. It is my understanding the shareholders elect the Board of Directors. I have exhausted my efforts to gain the Board's attention for an answer to my question and am moving to the next level in your chain of command--the shareholders.

I did not raise the second point, you did. I did not call to discuss the Beacon score with you; you asked me a lot of questions trying to find out why I wanted to contact the shareholders, and then, if I was the guy you heard about who is writing to your board about credit scoring. As you will recall, as you tried to identify me, you said, "Does the word 'Beacon' mean anything to you?" You said you wanted to give me an answer to the question. You said you have been with Equifax a long time and you work for a good company. That is wonderful.

Here is the correspondence to which you refer.

******************************

Subject: Message to Pete Thayer
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:26:50 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: dave.mooney@equifax.com

Mr. Mooney:

I spoke with Mr. Thayer. He told me to use your email address to contact him.

10/21/97

Mr. Thayer:

To attain the highest credit score (in the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the "Beacon"), how can I tell what is the right "number of revolving bank accounts"?

And, how do I attain the highest possible score?

What is the highest possible score?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

******************************

Subject: Equifax
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 18:03:05 UT
From: "Gary Poch"
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

Mr. Greg Fisher -

Point scoring models take into consideration many variables. There is no right or wrong number of revolving bank accounts or any other type of accounts.

A highest score does not exist. All scores are relative to one another. Each Equifax business customer decides what score to use on a particular situation. These customers determine what an acceptable range of scores is for them.

If you have any additional questions please contact us at 800-836-7703 and a representative will be glad to assist you.

Peter Thayer

******************************

Subject: Re: Credit scoring
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:32:32 -0500
From: customer.care@equifax.com
To: gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com

The highest score in numbers for Beacon is about 850. We are unable to advise you on what to do to increase your Beacon score. There are a few things to keep in mind.

More important than any "scoring" is the accuracy of your credit file. All items on you file may affect a credit grantors decision. If any item on your file is incorrect then that also may affect your "score".

Each credit grantor has there own criteria for granting or denying credit. Their criteria is how the score is derived based on credit file information and any external information provided by you or gathered by the company you applied with. So we cannot state whether open additional accounts or closing others will increase you score with the company you have currently applied with.

The reasons supplied by the company are the only information that is available as to why you were unable to get a loan or credit with that company and would be the only guide if you are still wanting to do business with them.

I would suggest asking you lender or mortgage underwriting what they are looking for in regards to your file. They have stated you have too few revolving accounts so it would be best to ask them. We do not have access to each companies criteria or the circumstances of the loan; i.e. collateral, down payment, income.

Thank you

******************************

Ms. Martin, Mr. Thayer stated "A highest score does not exist." The subsequent message from customer.care@equifax.com states "The highest score in numbers for Beacon is about 850."

So, which one is it really?

And, try to follow this logic: if you can say I have too many accounts, you should be able to say how many is not too many. If you are smart enough to say there are too many, you certainly should be smart enough to say, "if account A were closed, your score would be X." Or, "if your balance was only 50% of account B's limit instead of 75%, your score would be Y." Of course, it gets complicated when you try to explain the effect of multiple changes and infinite combinations of changes due to the symbiotic nature of regression analysis. That's probably something you should have looked into before going into the credit scoring business. It is a quagmire and a Rubicon.

Now, back to the question. The "credit bureau broad-based risk score" described on the Fair, Isaac web site http://www.fairisaac.com/html/complete.html#10 is the score to which I referred above ("the score Equifax produces for conventional mortgage loan underwriting, the 'Beacon'"). Equifax's response is that the lender has "stated you have too few revolving accounts so it would be best to ask them."

Lenders preparing mortgage loans for sale to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are required to use the "broad-based risk scores" in their raw form, which includes four "reason codes" (numbers that correspond with reasons the score is not higher). Equifax, not the lender, is the source of the reason codes and the list of reasons to which the codes are indexed--including, sometimes, "too few" or "too many bank revolving accounts"--directly linked to the credit score. The logical result of that statement by Equifax is someone like me wanting to know how many accounts I am supposed to have, if, indeed, you determine I have too few or too many. Only you know because only you have the criteria for the broad-based risk score, Beacon.

Neither the Board of Directors, nor anyone below, has been able to answer the question--so that is why I will bring it to the attention of the shareholders. Maybe they can think of a solution. OK?

Thanks for trying. Even though you have arrived late in the game, you were, however, on your level, still helpful: you gave me the information about the shareholders. If I have to buy stock in Equifax in order to have the chance to ask them, that's all right. It's only a couple of bucks.

Heck, you are probably bored with something as mundane as this. And why should you bother with it? Aren't you in the investor relations department, or something like that? Surely, you have other things to do. So let me give you something you might be able to answer with assuredness (and, accordingly, he's the right person for the job of addressing the question, anyway): Who is, and what are the credentials of Equifax's head statistician?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

******************************

Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:05:46 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: joni.martin@equifax.com
References: 1 , 2

Yesterday, you were eager to reply. What happened?

Mr. Thayer stated "A highest score does not exist." The subsequent message from customer.care@equifax.com states "The highest score in numbers for Beacon is about 850."

So, which one is it really?

And, who is, and what are the credentials of Equifax's head statistician?

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

******************************

Subject: Re:
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:43:18 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: joni.martin@equifax.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3

Did you get this message?

Greg Fisher wrote:

> Yesterday, you were eager to reply. What happened?
>
> Mr. Thayer stated "A highest score does not exist." The subsequent message from
> customer.care@equifax.com states "The highest score in numbers for Beacon is about
> 850."
>
> So, which one is it really?
>
> And, who is, and what are the credentials of Equifax's head statistician?
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

******************************

Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 11:00:33 -0400
From: Greg Fisher (gfisherns.gif - 165 Byteserinet.com)
To: joni.martin@equifax.com
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10

This is the tenth time in as many business days that I have written to you. There must be something wrong; you have not replied. Please answer the questions.

Greg Fisher wrote:

> This is the ninth time in as many business days that I have written to you. There must
> be something wrong; you have not replied. Please answer the questions.
>
> Greg Fisher wrote:
>
> > This is the eighth time in as many business days that I have written to you. There must
> > be something wrong; you have not replied. Please answer the questions.
> >
> > Greg Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > This is the seventh time in as many business days that I have written to you. There must
> > > be something wrong; you have not replied. Please answer the questions.
> > >
> > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is the sixth time in as many business days that I have written to you. There must
> > > > be something wrong; you have not replied. Please answer the questions.
> > > >
> > > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is the fifth time in as many business days that I have written to you. There must
> > > > > be something wrong; you have not replied. Please answer the questions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This is the fourth time in as many business days that I have written to you. There must
> > > > > > be something wrong; you have not replied. Please answer the questions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Did you get this message?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greg Fisher wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yesterday, you were eager to reply. What happened?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mr. Thayer stated "A highest score does not exist." The subsequent message from
> > > > > > > > customer.care@equifax.com states "The highest score in numbers for Beacon is about
> > > > > > > > 850."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, which one is it really?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And, who is, and what are the credentials of Equifax's head statistician?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > > > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Greg Fisher
> > > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Greg Fisher
> > > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
> >
> > --
> > Greg Fisher
> > Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)
>
> --
> Greg Fisher
> Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)

--
Greg Fisher
Cadillac Owner (1978 Eldo)(Red)


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