The Charlotte Observer on employers using credit scores
McClatchy newspaper will not identify its sources - Lawyer takes the fall
9/25/2009
Consumer reporting agencies TransUnion, Experian and Equifax have all stated that they do not provide credit scores for employment screening. Despite that, the Charlotte Observer observes, "Companies consider the reports on debts and payments, but don't usually look at credit scores, according to several experts."
The inventory of those named in the story includes credit report and credit score expert witness John Ulzheimer. At Credit.com, he comments: "This clearly insinuates that employers do use credit scores, but not usually. The problem is that the insinuation is incorrect."
Daniel O'Meara, another person quoted, is compelled to comment (bravely exiting with "Please remove me from future emails."): "Accordingly, as to strong trends with no known exceptions, a knowledgeable but prudent person is more inclined to say that employers usually do or do not do something. This does not imply that some do, only that the person does not purport that all one million employers act in lockstep."
He's a lawyer, in case you couldn't tell. They are all experts, and know stuff about a lot of stuff. Just ask them.
Kenny Colbert of The Employers Association mentions employers and credit scores in the article. Only his assistant responded to a question concerning the association's evidence, saying, "Our understanding is that employers do not receive credit score information when they conduct credit checks."
The title of the Observer's website illustrates its priorities: "Charlotte Observer - Carolina News Panthers Bobcats Sports Banking NASCAR Racing - CharlotteObserver.com."
At least the news is still number one.
From: Greg Fisher, creditscoring.com
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:56 PM
To: Christina Rexrode, reporter, Charlotte Observer
Cc:
Steven Broderick, communications director for Congressman Steve Cohen
Rebecca Dreilinger, media contact, Congressman Luis Gutierrez
Hassan Christian, Clarence Williams, office of Congressman Kendrick Meek
Dan Wilson, Asset Protection Associates
Daniel P. O'Meara, partner, Montgomery, McCracken, Walker & Rhoads
John Ulzheimer, Credit.com
Kenny Colbert, president, The Employers Association
Scott White, public relations director, Carolinas Medical Center
Kathleen Johansen, Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools
Tom Shiel, media relations, Duke Energy
press@familydollar.com
corpcsf@wellsfargo.com
Kelly E. Sapp, Bank of America
Colleen Hanabusa, Hawaii Senate president
Rick Thames, editor, Cheryl Carpenter, managing editor, Charlotte Observer
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, HR 3149, Charlotte Observer
You wrote:
Companies consider the reports on debts and payments, but don't usually look at credit scores, according to several experts.
and
[The Employers Association president Kenny] Colbert said. "I talk to a lot of employers who say, 'You know, it may be to your advantage to hire somebody with a poor credit score because they really need steady employment.'"
What experts said that employers don't usually look at credit scores?
[Editor's note: To give the reporter some background, email to U.S. and state legislators is included in the message]
[Correspondence with the offices of some members of congress]:
From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:00 PM
To: Broderick, Dreilinger
Cc: Christian, Williams
Subject: credit score, employers, HR 3149
You state that employers do not hire job applicants because the employers "have erroneously linked credit scores to potential job performance."
Consumer reporting agencies Equifax, TransUnion and Experian all state that they do not provide credit scores for employment screening. Your legislation does not contain the word "score."
What evidence suggests that employers use credit scores?
[Correspondence with state senate members]:
From: creditscoring.com
To: Ohio state senator Ray Miller
Date: 4/20/2009, 01:35 AM
Cc:
Kathleen M. Watson, director, OCPA@dss.mil, Defense Security Service (DSS)
Patty Coller, Niki Weirich, Stan Boney, assignment@wytv.com, WYTV-TV
info@dailycourt.com
Whitney Ward, Dave Sess, WKBN-TV
xyz@onestopohio.org
savethedream@com.state.oh.us
Jim Siegel, Columbus Dispatch
Dale Miller, Sue Morano, Shirley Smith, Eric Kearney, Nina Turner, Fred Strahorn, Ohio state senators
Subject: credit score, employers, DSCC
dailycourt.com writes: "Miller said he is sponsoring the bill because he heard about two women whose positions at the Defense Supply Center Columbus were terminated because of their credit history... 'They (the news
reporters) pointed out that these women were terminated because they had low credit scores, and I thought that was awful that we would fire someone because they had a bad credit history,' said Miller."
http://www.dailycourt.com/articles.php/4649
Also, you said, "Obviously, you need a job, and then the thing that will prevent you from being employed is having a low credit score."
http://www.wkbn.com/content/news/local/story/Credit-Check-Ban/qi7EYsS47kG9-i33q3NHXA.cspx
What evidence suggests employers use credit scores?
http://www.mygtv.net/?p=19884
http://www.com.ohio.gov/SaveTheDream/Help.aspx
http://www.com.ohio.gov/SaveTheDream/docs/BuildingorRebuildingYourCredit.pdf
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=128_SB_91
From: creditscoring.com
Date: 4/29/09
To: R. Miller, Bill Harris, Ohio state senators
Cc:
OCPA@dss.mil, Kathleen M. Watson, director, Defense Security Service (DSS)
Patty Coller, assignment@wytv.com, Niki Weirich, Stan Boney, WYTV-TV
info@dailycourt.com
Whitney Ward, Dave Sess, WKBN-TV
xyz@onestopohio.org
savethedream@com.state.oh.us
Jim Siegel, Columbus Dispatch
Dale Miller, Sue Morano, Shirley Smith, Eric Kearney, Nina Turner, Fred Strahorn, Ohio state senators
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, DSCC II
Please reply.
From: creditscoring.com
To: [Ohio state senator] Ray Miller
Date: Wednesday, 5/20/2009 1:20 PM
Cc:
OCPA@dss.mil, Kathleen M. Watson, director, Defense Security Service (DSS)
Patty Coller, assignment@wytv.com, Niki Weirich, Stan Boney, WYTV-TV
info@dailycourt.com
Whitney Ward, Dave Sess, WKBN-TV
xyz@onestopohio.org
savethedream@com.state.oh.us
Jim Siegel, Columbus Dispatch
Dale Miller, Sue Morano, Shirley Smith, Eric Kearney, Nina Turner, Fred Strahorn, Ohio state senators
Brian Hall, Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLP
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, DSCC III
What evidence suggests employers use credit scores?
Are you a Believer or a Non-Believer?
http://www.creditscoring.com/influence/government/employercreditscorebelievers.html
From: Dale Miller [Ohio state senator] On Behalf Of Senator [Ray] Miller
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 1:11 PM
To: creditscoring.com
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, DSCC III
I don't have the evidence, but if I bill is offered, I believe evidence would come forward. If it does not, then maybe the bill would not be needed.
Regarding a believer or non-believer, if you are referring to belief in Jesus, I'm a believer.
Dale Miller
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From: Laura Hampton, The Employers Association
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:36 AM
To: Greg Fisher, creditscoring.com
Cc: Christina Rexrode; Elizabeth Brackett; Kendra Dodd; Kenny Colbert
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, HR 3149, Charlotte Observer, Employers Association
Hello again, Greg.
Our understanding is that employers do not receive credit score information when they conduct credit checks. They receive a credit history report from a background check company, but I don't believe that it says the score from the three credit reporting agencies. Hope this clarifies your question.
Regards,
Laura
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From: Greg Fisher, creditscoring.com
To: Rexrode, Christina
Cc: Broderick, Dreilinger, Christian, Williams, Wilson, O'Meara, Ulzheimer, Colbert, White, Johansen, Shiel, press@familydollar.com, corpcsf@wellsfargo.com, Sapp, Hanabusa, Thames, Carpenter, Laura Hampton (The Employers Association)
Sent: Tue Sep 01 09:17:00 2009
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, HR 3149, Charlotte Observer, 2nd request
John Ulzheimer of credit.com replied that he told you that scores are not used by employers.
Speaking for Kenny Colbert, Laura Hampton of The Employers Association said that employers do not receive credit scores.
One of the commenters to your story writes:
pigchef wrote on 08/30/2009 08:03:01 AM:
Your credit score suffers when you are out of work for a year or more and then it is used against you to keep you from working. Great program. Is this another new program to boost jobs by our benevolent King?
Which of the other experts said that employers don't usually look at credit scores?
Please reply. This is the second request.
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From: Christina Rexrode, Charlotte Observer
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, HR 3149, Charlotte Observer, 2nd request
Greg, I am not clear on what your problem is with my story. I appreciate your interest but it sounds like you already got the information that you need. Would you like me to keep you in mind as a source for future stories? Thx.
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From: Greg Fisher, creditscoring.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:29 AM
To: Christina Rexrode, Charlotte Observer
Cc: Broderick, Dreilinger, Christian, Williams, Wilson, O'Meara, Ulzheimer, Colbert, White, Johansen, Shiel, press@familydollar.com, corpcsf@wellsfargo.com, Sapp, Hanabusa, Thames, Carpenter, Hampton
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, HR 3149, Charlotte Observer, your dismissal of me
I am starstruck by your offer of publicity, and I will keep you in mind for stories on practices helping the demise of journalism. The problem is that you fail to name your sources.
In your story's section titled "The company's rights," you write about employers reviewing credit scores, and that they "don't usually" do so. That implies that they do so on some occasions. However, regardless of employers' rights, consumer reporting agencies Equifax, TransUnion and Experian do not provide credit scores to employers. In other words, no employer may use credit scores for employment purposes, and if they do so, they violate their contracts with the CRAs.
Contrary to (precisely the opposite of) me getting the information that I need, I got information from your sources that is exactly the opposite of what I need. I want to know who said that employers don't usually get credit scores (implying that they sometimes do). So far, nobody has come forward to accept responsibility, leaving you twisting in the wind (with the rest of your colleagues).
But, what is important is not what I need; it is what your readers need: Who are the several "experts"?
I will take it (and their expert status) up with them. What is your ethics policy on naming sources? What correction will you publish?
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From: Rexrode, Christina
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:41 AM
To: Greg Fisher
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, HR 3149, Charlotte Observer, your dismissal of me
No, you're wrong about failing to name sources. The sidebar mentions Ulzheimer as one of the sources who says that employers don't check credit scores. I talked to several employers and other HR experts who said the same thing, and you've already figured out that Kenny Colbert is one of them. I didn't name each one in the story because that would take up a lot of space and because there isn't a need to, after multiple people have said the same thing.
I'm still not sure what you're trying to get me to prove, but thanks for your interest in the story. If you have further problems, you can get in touch with my editor, Patrick Scott.
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From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:36 PM
To: Thames, Carpenter, Patrick Scott, Charlotte Observer
Cc: Rexrode, Broderick, Dreilinger, Christian, Williams, Wilson, O'Meara, Ulzheimer, Colbert, White, Johansen, Shiel, press@familydollar.com, corpcsf@wellsfargo.com, Sapp, Hanabusa, Thames, Carpenter, Hampton
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, HR 3149, Charlotte Observer, your unnamed sources
Your publication states:
Companies consider the reports on debts and payments, but don't usually look at credit scores, according to several experts.
and
[The Employers Association president Kenny] Colbert said. "I talk to a lot of employers who say, 'You know, it may be to your advantage to hire somebody with a poor credit score because they really need steady employment.'"
What experts said that employers don't usually look at credit scores?
If they do not usually look at scores, then they must do so on some occasions-- just not usually. In other words, your story claims that employers use credit scores. Not usually, perhaps, but according to you, they use them. Why else would you use the qualifier "usually"? In fact, one of your sources is quoted in the story, stating, "I talk to a lot of employers who say, 'You know, it may be to your advantage to hire somebody with a poor credit score because they really need steady employment.'"
In her most recent email, your reporter refers to sources that say the opposite (even though one originally referred to an employer using scores as seen in the quote above).
Who said that employers do not usually look at credit scores?
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From: Daniel P. O'Meara [partner and vice chair, Montgomery, McCracken, Walker & Rhoads, LLP Labor and Employment Department]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:05 PM
To: Greg Fisher, creditscoring.com, Thames, Carpenter, Scott
Cc: Rexrode, Broderick, Dreilinger, Christian, Williams, Wilson, Ulzheimer, Colbert, White, Johansen, Shiel, press@familydollar.com, corpcsf@wellsfargo.com, Sapp, Hanabusa, Thames, Carpenter, Hampton
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, HR 3149, Charlotte Observer, your unnamed sources
I've been trying to ignore you, but can't any further.
It may have been me that said that 'employers don't usually look at credit scores.' It, at a minimum, reflects my thoughts.
There are roughly one million employers in the United States. Their practices vary. Even if one has worked with literally thousands of employers, and advised hundreds of employers on hiring practices, it would be presumptuous to say that "all employers" do something, or that "no employer" does something.
Accordingly, as to strong trends with no known exceptions, a knowledgeable but prudent person is more inclined to say that employers usually do or do not do something. This does not imply that some do, only that the person does not purport that all one million employers act in lockstep.
Please remove me from future emails.
Thank you.
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9/25/2009
Also, see
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National Financial Literacy Month, 2011 (video),
Myth: Employers use credit scores
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- What the President said
- Credit bureaus claim that they do not provide credit scores for employment screening
- Groundhog Day, 2012
- Groundhog Day, 2011
- Credit scores in employment, Believers and Nonbelievers
- Video: Media say employers use scores (2009)
- Federal Reserve on credit scores used by employers, 2009
- Federal Reserve on credit scores used by employers, 2010
- Federal Reserve on credit scores used by employers, 2010 (one more time)
- Members of Congress say credit scores are used by employers
- Members of Congress say credit scores are used by employers II
- Members of Congress say credit scores are used by employers III
- U.S. House representative testifies employers use credit scores
- U.S. Treasury Suggests Employers Use Credit Scores
- DoD agency states it does not use credit scores for security clearances
- White House credit score requirements
- Mentions of credit scores in employment in Oregon
- Washington attorney general on what "can" and "may" happen
- FICO company warns employers use credit scores that credit reporting agencies deny providing
- TransUnion employers survey credit report question error
- Training TransUnion on credit scores, employers
- Equifax: Employers can know your credit score
- Training Equifax on credit scores, employers
- Experian: Employers use credit scores
- Training Experian on credit scores, employers
- VantageScore: Employers use credit scores
- Employers using credit scores blogger meme
- Canada Day: Reuters, FICO and the employers myth
- USA TODAY will not reveal its source
- USA TODAY will not reveal its source II
- McClatchy newspaper will not identify its sources
- AP reports legislator said employers use credit scores
- Dallas Morning News on employers using Equifax credit scores and reports
- Influence: Hearst; San Francisco Chronicle
- Influence: Tribune; LA Times
- Credit score use by employers depiction by CBS
- Influence: CBS
- U.S. PIRG fails to prove employers use credit scores
- Influence: Consumers Union
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